New Residential Investment (NRZ)

Kaitlyn Mauritz Head, IR
Michael Nierenberg Chairman, President & CEO
Baron Silverstein President
Kevin Barker Piper Sandler & Co.
Eric Hagen BTIG
Douglas Harter Crédit Suisse
Bose George KBW
Stephen Laws Raymond James & Associates
Giuliano Bologna Compass Point
Henry Coffey Wedbush Securities
Jason Stewart JonesTrading Institutional Services
Trevor Cranston JMP Securities
Call transcript
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Good morning, and welcome to the New Residential Investment Corp.'s Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2020 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]. I would now like to turn the conference over to Kaitlyn Mauritz, Investor Relations. Ms. Mauritz, please go ahead.

Kaitlyn Mauritz

Great. good and Anita, you, morning, everyone. Thank to the New like Earnings thank Full you for today Call. us joining Residential's XXXX for year I'd Fourth and Quarter

and President; Nierenberg, here Josh a and Capell, Dondzila, Silverstein, members morning, management CEO Throughout of are Chairman, are of Servicing President me NewRez website of Head our Michael the Navarro, Strategy; including Joining CEO the Financial NewRez. this today Jack this division number was the and reference the to CFO; team, President Nick of Officer; call of that Santoro, posted we Chief and going Cathy of morning. supplement our New the earnings to Baron Residential NewRez;

download now. you've the presentation If done you already not so, I to encourage

the quarterly the may I'd by in press contained Before with actual the materially I'd encourage that and forward-looking call point our forward-looking disclaimers review out will Michael, and statements SEC. our statements, results. the statements. These earnings filed over uncertain you to differ and release annual to certain supplement are like today risk in be to from nature, I factors their statements regarding reports turn review to and

over earnings we'll our A element. discussing during be And comparable Michael. directly addition, that, measures to financial to most in today's non-GAAP with reconciliation turn measures In be some call. the these can call the of GAAP found I'll measures

Michael Nierenberg

year I'll morning importantly, of big through a the to company. you through mortgage presentation going about comments by the Kait. and think on company we off Thanks, take it around and is everyone, forward. this last Baron for here. the how bit kick some Obviously, Good giving morning, to excited you take more of little some going And team us. thanks the call joining a you

efforts reflect first at and us great painful, of put As I'm steps proud last we pre-COVID difficult the excited our initially the position we pandemic undertake for of the returning year, The of hit, march continue we towards while I'm to future had levels. super company. a to on when very our back earnings our in the look our period has team,

value the have we a rise, never last formerly known to year, company, been which as Partners, of seen grow and amortization financed, historic believe our From grow lows macro is should for portfolio servicing its to never MSR position we company. our some our earnings interest origination helped strides This to just rates our XXXX Our have view, NewRez, in for great our to in will have of the been us of put the help bright. be plummeting consolidate year our liquidity Shellpoint so. us company. better our recover This our we stronger, the as portfolio has will business. acquisition a and result With speeds portfolios enable NewRez, a lost has in faster and the our future or looks past MSR mortgage rates to seen over offset hitting

our mortgage about more going that likely the offset higher in And than result of think from speeds, you're slower combination portfolio, see cash should you X flow As the will to decline those rates. in MSR more recapture origination.

past On levels. of as amounts very investment lower than yields maintaining been cash the we larger at side, on focusing remain patient, have investment the in

the the expectation end cost MSR the down efforts reliance lock and QX. our debt is capital financing to will funding majority of financed repo financing. markets our our year, that It and financing be our of refinance reduced in Our on last of by

see deploy capital return for our for patient the remain looking opportunities shareholders. appropriate will to where We we risk

on gain rates, low had company side, and mortgage sale margins. a higher great year, by the driven origination NewRez large On volumes

earnings expect While channels increased are channel which our MSR volumes share, we to lead rates should our portfolio. higher for better in growth that to come market DTC excited about our we in very prospects and off, recapture

only million. a of company $X portfolio mortgage billion billion the in as company the relates $XX middle the innings of mortgages, earnings company, our we our growth, Partners frame working XXXX, $XX on $XXX on believe growth $XXX that year of and we acquired XXXX. branding originated approximately billion technology made servicing Shellpoint I the which $XX initiatives, Tremendous when XXXX, to our of MSRs of owned billion growth retention. it customer and and focusing to are end million originated with and in firmly at of and Just include upgrades, approximately of the ended mortgages, the

in On the do assistance, great their his working team enable different and side, be with focus job, need lives stay a programs continue our and servicing Navarro manage better who and helping to their with to homes. Jack we'll on to them them homeowners

great the I'll And our typical a as and that which supplement, has the begin they Finally, this dividends, look online. to in now earnings, growth to with shareholders refer appropriate from page. place going XXXX -- to Page is believe firmly growth enter expect is with I highlight our our forward with company been growing X. growing posted I'm we providing us.

formed So in $X.X in billion XXXX, -- the dividends. was since we over the company paid

today billion. equity of net have We $X.X

$XX.X shareholder and we the has excess our you largest our and securities assets inception loans of advances, since owner we're between in portfolio, nature market billion and XX%, When our billion. cap nonbank today is the the MSRs. in of servicer at MSRs, at full been of services business, Our diversified and XXXX, return look had $X.X end

servicing business. and origination Our

the income of side, and origination the we're originator. in $XXX our top ended nonbank at of XXXX we division, the year million $XXX.X volumes, mortgage business billion, On origination billion $XX.X UPB. pretax a servicing XX In

million, mortgage was the of servicers. one Our Page XX remain and pretax results. income we top X $XXX.X nonbank

quarter that Clearly, by was share. Core as earnings, related amortization portfolio. or per quarter, $X.XX per it million. $X.XX $XXX MSR diluted to affected our the Our income that higher net diluted share GAAP in saw for the we

dividend increase, XX% We our and million in $XXX and with X% the quarter, quarter-over-quarter the at cash. of $X.X our On quarter ended year quarter. of return dividend yield Again, raised we the fourth the of value book return $XX.XX. of was book billion, of stock shareholder XX% shareholder equity dividend end the

today, to flow of could like mortgage way from frame you which we during saw value to just a this of MSR sure our little you as it it give sum to detail. the little book as as business, essentially, bit more around result about us the quarter page. X, we X, we'll $XX.XX. the out on the investment Page I cash company. our affected the of dramatic calculation. prepayments. it interest But to the our is discuss parts a We higher see Just $XX.XX the you it, impact Page think fast are When tried book that from show negatively where page. have to reported Obviously, we we into resulted break shows forward is This a get value value we rates. Q&A, approximately today I'm portfolio, we bit the higher book

that New $XXX reported from you $X.XX value. the our effectively, After we more of of higher rates. million of for implied $X.X from company, a our new we that an $X we of the X, from income about in that $XXX EBITDA where give it we our you value do to an rates value creates administration clearly, range million is from for value peers an to what just put true they PE Enterprise environment tried see XXXX, mean a rate anywhere book share billion. what mortgage $X are we operating to X, we way think a off-balance and and EBITDA. between $XXX to value, there will we and do $X.X billion standpoint from We book had of trade. Residential? tax, the of sheet that and range increase and a to out took guestimate X spending above friends As anywhere implied the valuation that relates multiples to million. to a some in believe took think Page and When about

look forecasting the different same from most expectations are thing. at economists, If they you

show So bottom try on is $XX.XX. QX part of to as value what do the below book of we the page,

going and believe points from the as are XX at where end think you of X.X% to $X.XX, think points, is we we it be and XXX how in great value. the earnings we the related higher If we at be up basis think we $X.XX. all we to look XX-year ended in see we that these in about Again, XX prepayments, as interest value believe think could much MSR to rates, QX, our points, we book how about a treasury, up that increased guesstimates, implied higher historical change business, went basis XX-year basis -- back but values truly great, position book are to performance,

newer recapture recapture. production as to As go going the it's believe on Page really, a between we And in I side, And interest pre-COVID what core on slower lower we page, X, back similar we're get that we simplify earnings is up earnings result X, amortization, our probably have recapture say you this to page, basis to it been to see rates increase than initially of XX is look result Page our points. we at think company. again, the XX could just $X.XX on expected. mortgage rates this net levels. lower a and will

how everybody think to I folks different it recapture. has as relates report, metrics reporting

buckets, NewRez-originated you look a think and XX%; we is product, differently refinancing to to it you from the page, tried different Overall, of on product, show a the and XX% the you on a out recapture bit we retail-originated perspective. quarter for the this do NewRez -- break the on XX%. If left organization about side little how what

our customer keeping more perspective think customers DTC you retention help grow our drive, when clearly, two, more retention, but earnings; amortization. desire have higher from to is about that down to slowing one, a importantly, our going and channels, So

lead to we're capacity, the our the into on do page. customer a page On the other X% bottom can value in our improvement recapture -- X% get in side, to X.X%. we'll is right left, X.X% a something our bottom we Q&A to working for very We're on back recapture we again, the recapture conversely, decrease the change Operating retention. you of will see going that will on a awareness. goes that? look lower A on our How And at And rate Have believe brand. side part rate can the what provides of then this market upside be. portfolio. that's you our see One on in the to change at focused are brand side.

side to partnership will We've to the and which every the pretty initiatives of and operating we goes view continue origination the to loans like us been got on loans forward the look technology that And have from at business. and to and of business help more that going drive leader a That's our Salesforce really quicker our there. of employees and add I quarter. to which lot to technology other online end a and certain mortgage recapture funding we borrower, single us We the world-class connect again, of to around being be the a will growing do vocal us get there, able to company think divisions, business a loans fund capacity side, able help does, our pipe. finally, work kind be we then give of through servicing about

for We've was and look capital, XXXX down X, there. X, did As real year securitizations term shareholder financed our of Page at see our talk assets, Page our did we balance most at we unencumbered just lot can locking billion gained right about of XX billion. $X.X financing, results, staying of the We a of quite quick senior and sheet great year during debt. returns. you securitizations. you of origination team. Bottom side rebuilding when with frankly, have today, unsecured XX, focused as you job $XXX We We loan spent, on we Page one accomplishments is million lowered the funds. of a cost look is market share. delivering cash. a by which And overall, $X

is finally, and mark-to-market down homeowners The billion forbearances just from $XX.X about agency perspective, a X% I to which XXXX. started I we fastest-growing which portfolio. our in securitizations. mortgage from plans decreased start And largest that helping mortgage peak working Keep to we out to in of as of $X from our mind, borrowers in XXXX to year, the investment XXXX From of portfolio. with quickly to originator stock ended exposure we pointed a in now And and our billion. I'll daily to X.X%, XXXX. from big homeowner earlier this did rebounded business, focus when repo March. ours low going our them raised XX we the around our markets. with of dividend forbearance investment then talk away financing, we out we the bar. the Xx dark was XXXX. percentage navigate X.X% financed with and think COVID-XX. NewRez in the Overall, from flip just pointed days That's is gets at Page

our We've agency we've investment portfolio. the then buying from seen year of we of the we our a to portfolio forward, out tightening days our the to spread Mae MSR of March are Ginnie million portfolio, think areas is one also agency in Fed to generally some $XXX And going mortgages, stay a dramatic thing to the on with side. smaller buyouts. added an we on, we've added As of MSR where offset on the that area Mae continue overall last focused been as point securities we've portfolio, of percentage about One space, early That's today. the also Ginnie focused. that

a We Maes Ginnie about excess which $XX of total, of includes have full billion $XXX MSRs about and billion MSRs. both versus portfolio

securities, million $XXX mostly of risk long what $XXX a We we've seen lower sold residential million sold loans. at securities non-agency time. we than quarter, credit in quite yields the During of

On the out, we again, some bought other pointed side, securities. I agency

began QX, in collateral of be out we next of securitizations again, million with month. $XXX During from call the we will we called bought the quarter, $XX Post MSRs we of QX. -- business billion our called We collateral NewRez. million call and $XXX market during

balances and move us pick going lower. there's to delinquencies business. up As additional as EBO think we look decline forward for some think opportunities, opportunity again, bit a be little call the do advanced about activity we expect and to We in

NewRez, business very business, to our turned haven't that through and our on, through an portfolio the little partner. now, and We origination the we'll to talk we're area servicing in mortgage company, been in we our our on continue business. to large that with We recently focus SFR and on bit. a originations non-QM focused origination We'll particularly there. continue grow That's MSR

back We On that truly the I'm overall fast not XXXX, beat MSRs, in value to the we write-downs a horse amortization. dead going here. We of believe if to had you had go MSRs.

If in will fourth the -- I'll of it's a normalized a and that a again, a bit and a that around That quarter. kind market, at in our X was overall little think multiple. talk X in you X in total, look We be minute. of in multiple mark to in unchanged do to it's kind

have through or financing in continue either It's with focus, companies. Mae for on through business Net billion. equity the XX you just banks take of Ginnie facilities and average no $X.X to there XX the weighted to months. markets real nonmark-to-market Page mark-to-market loans correlates financed daily $XXX as XXX% and space. securitizations million, EBO I on capital the which loans again, to our out, side, insurance the On pointed both We'll has we securities quick.

right the securities. non-agency On side page, of residential the

a to rights. forbearance loans portion to residuals Just from our of retention to that of be as Page XX, it couple mortgage MH to will is things sense, what Then clean the has the we have including relates some billion population of and believe that believe a we'll bonds. risk We there, bonds. population call other up, give anywhere of this because continues larger do small originated to collateral. Nobody up clean related you were we these $XXX amount callable. more to -- $XX XXXX. going XXXX call a and million

While that Page see advances, is Servicer also advanced and we that by is factor only. delinquencies callable, represent We decline. $XX XX. today billion that see of to billion need can balances decline, currently $XX we

unchanged. the tax really from the of On essentially billion. nature and seasonal to quarter, property $X.X $X.X That's to related billion They're escrow. up

that continue stay to to $X.X and around billion normalize We the expect number.

weighted advances the is cost our financing quarter, X.XX%, reduced X.XX%. down we on average which During to from

advance So taking is the our of financed is basis $X nonmark-to-market and all the a of job of which the balances, curve billion XX capital we're it's nonrecourse. debt, markets, advantage honestly, with On financing treasury and yield X-year remarkable of have billion an rates $X million advanced and you end outstanding front $XX at our in LTV XX points. of where or

in Finally, about sit COVID actually X.X%. I we homes. continued service flip to to to really to NRZ And side, This them now just that? related the on continue down something X.X%, important our ecosystem is to out flatten. forbearances to work pointed to earlier, their here. we on portfolio, homeowners -- slide of investment will special a Page as I'll the keep want the that's quick and in and peak have us homeowners, where with you how servicers take Baron, XX. think

Baron Silverstein

ending one. I with you're thought this

Michael Nierenberg

and lower. $XXX.X margins little lock And a XX% business, take through in little is volume, adjusted over about Fine. quarter. We which gain you million turn pull-through then who'll bit the bit $XX.X little XX%. and little billion a the $XX.X quarter. origination, XX% sale of during on a funded is up And up billion detail. as or tighter servicing a to We'll bit down Baron, of a our in income. more I'll it and pretax QX volume summary, Quarter-over-quarter, talk origination bit it's from

growth, business, volume the focus to our our channels, adjusted think XXX% important $XX.X of billion, of about $XXX.X is really which year-over-year; As up DTC think origination which the we talk thing XXX% a as be growth we Again, and $XX.X our as our XXX% on income, that pretax million, origination will I lock year-over-year; billion, in this, up pull-through in up to will funded to continue look year-over-year. at Baron is XXXX is minute. summary,

we look year-over-year. XX% As XXX% or XX, year-over-year. Wholesale, Page direct-to-consumer at up quarter-over-quarter XX% quarter-over-quarter channel, up XX% across every or

up my pointed which And business, brokers, real year-over-year. XX% XXX% work joint Our our origination we year-over-year. and for I through up firmly middle channel I that business in estate venture different team, is the and up that lead management that quarter-over-quarter, heights XX% and believe X% opening correspondent with finally, on think then out innings this we're us I in an think early new going to company, who remarks, to to I thrilled our are there.

On back transfer up Ended X.X mind, some income, of open of a company XX% and I'm to percentages end bring or perspective, servicing billion. our into rest Q&A. we did our quarter-over-quarter. to in we'll From estimate a at be, servicing turn presentation give QX the as about UPB, servicing call servicing $XXX $XXX.X the now customers over our recapture the servicing quarter-over-quarter. up going the that try X% million our increase the QX, million, customer the then up to served, of of X% from continue Baron, year to again, And in-house to of counterparties, pretax third-party and take, portfolio up billion it servicing the will consolidate we other relates side, $XX.X Keep quarter-over-quarter. lot to servicers, again, them.

Baron Silverstein

morning, everybody. Good All right. Thanks, Mike.

wanted of for the in helpful NewRez part the capital, market I it and thought differentiator of relationship industry, of enough felt us slides, this and is, to company, A is few NRZ, NewRez late critical a and including with just stress brief mortgage strength, be a say of lot parent a I companies and differentiate core would the next I visibility of what market from knowledge, to overview makes of partnership. of a about our to course, our NRZ big foundation cannot mortgage importance I a appropriate it pack. provide the news On the different.

and our to servicing non-agency turning overall plan our that Michael our XX of quite for quick strength. market is share -- summary just special So and, to recapture the scale, a position future, talked course, operating growth, just has we including of a platform profitability Slide about, bit how products

platform hearing X market and Slide XXXX. reminder significant origination or we've customer portfolio, time, footprint, to billion But with XX. also originated market share. a years servicing you in that Moving a servicing established competitor X weren't NewRez. and ago, base good profitability, since origination about growing This as $X our in ourselves is really the that

a really but lot NRZ can be the in of you assets still partnership importance MSR the the do, we of the portfolio. guy of We the to a may grow. mortgage and of the and have lot well-rounded to of So acquisition room impact the work with see Ditech a new diversified platform town, we're and

Turning XX. to Slide

market as originations market our all Just XXX wanted At and across capture demonstrated believe market big picked that's And growth earlier, profitability overall conditions end points to of have as changes a XXXX, to is grow do with platform share continuing not to our our companies highlight X.X% share. also for. Michael the ability our growth to production we're only market our Small successfully approximately profitability, mortgage share agnostic we focus that's of basis to said as and in We've what our that our the market playing impact channels. can We market was more we grown origination across approximately share up. volumes, share. and have XXXX. but that in on and X-year can

one We million also largest NewRez. approximately retain X.X of customers the want as homeowners with to we portfolios that of have servicing

out build to brand to continue we is on and plan the that our execute better at get As goal. recapture,

XX. Slide to Turning

benefit interest will valuations MSR rates rise. discussed, as previously Michael As

is or seen focus slide, origination of a position long-term left on different channel allows be NewRez we The positioned market. a across and as direct-to-consumer as the take of a perform to However, our of position to advantage changing In anticipation rate side multichannel purchase to us platform to From company. refinance environments. for the as a huge our opportunity perspective, our NRZ our strategy have either the to historical is plan we channel believe well can for rates, well markets. our higher focus

platform the loyalty. months, to that and to being The better connecting to DTC if grow. recognition our awareness build only our be our focus also will lead next continue to enhance of consumers, brand We're Within will as further planning slows to get some when launching acquisition market new few we'll and a our strategy brand the customer capabilities strategy restart down. shift we refinance

Regarding our retail volumes JV partners are purchase partnerships business, we our joint to venture rates. different and business, sticky our we country. will and realtors have These focused capture the provides XX where partnerships preferred with across origination grow continue

funding fourth Our building purchasing platform expand capabilities our noted, loan It be continues record had with to and been adding out direct-to-broker our has which billion opportunistically new MSRs adding dynamics should quarter, channel. platform base. broker customer to closing million, buying with out and our as approximately channel, to adding our month plan grow in market our by to by customers. build grew in loans, we historically $XX record continue In to which the quarter-over-quarter continue wholesale XX% our $XXX purchase-focused we'll and new the evaluate we growth by mortgage a a by December relationships channel, correspondent in

Turning to XX. Slide

for products to and underwriting ability the borrowers criteria. credit our meet non-agency proven that originate have We

in exciting month, already before, are originations relaunch product this extent determine is core being originated pick fourth in pricing, March announced NewRez the which But but back the of into of million to program, in months and momentum production proprietary the non-QM demand, done to channel borrower of profiles the also a we follow. us. in paused up jumbo of the we've year, quarter quarter, entering in competency and we third expect non-agency non-QM this cautiously our back pre-crisis while $XXX we and our excess levels. While for very we last Last relaunch credit to for the is to we relaunched

recognize it's well our servicing Slide best and division particular, job servicing about the important of but recognized business. in talked do origination, incredible an services. the to division the one and servicer, special lot Jack in as entire and Turning the are in outstanding mortgage to our industry a We've Shellpoint servicers special our Navarro XX.

In impacted were the that quarterly environment, aggregate the right addition of in chart the XXX,XXX number Approximately of impacted. solutions. XX% for we pandemic by The all changing over that the support were side and provides helped with growth homeowners had to repayment information and homeowners COVID their solutions their Shellpoint of such homeowners outstanding. have resolved, approximately are And permit homeowners forbearance mitigation loss deferments XX% homeowners have hardship homeowners were of their into move where XX% active help and modifications. forbearance an plans, still impacted impacted as on loan

to Turning our technology our focused innovative make platform and on towards working extremely We're XX. new Slide to company better. are changes and

month outcomes, as company, month will deliver where critical solutions our be customer of course, of has closing between months and had us and Changes and of focused lines to Some which improve in DTC overall efficiency, the fulfillment of we're fulfillment reduced predictive milestones change new time some seen rates. conversion to improvement we've generation lead ever X improve our our changes help funding the employee our largest already after on will that for analytics, including with drive optimizing marketing past do our we billion in is which the the satisfaction include connectivity And that a December experience, which that the portals XXXX, added capacity, to along customer and journey operations customer month by with costs. quarter. loans. assist partnership our hardships, to We've $X.X everything combining launched also relate best end ensure team COVID and servicing the but customer to exceptional our origination Salesforce Loan borrower to consumers first produce to of by homeownership facing journey. funding

to, back you. Thank Turning Michael.

Michael Nierenberg

Operator, Q&A. to Baron. turn Thanks, now Great you some it we'll for back job.


[Operator Instructions].

today Sandler. Barker The first comes Piper question with from Kevin

Kevin Barker

NewRez. different guys channels the it's the years, channels and the specifically in and growth to on progress the the business. made of disclosure very these all that all you see different Michael, appreciate I within helpful over last couple

you where the on on of talk So of in stand to back And as filed filing the that disclosures the stands new some far November? the as follow-up of given NewRez. where S-X, two? on about Could you confidential the separation

Michael Nierenberg

too evaluate mean total what the Res. would we a getting -- and without So separation company, New continue specific, to NRZ to or meaning

by think more the for markets. and will absolutely it value table. the if public into it on It's that's So bringing the that company we something shareholders separating create

about it's the we that of a we I that worth family, our as do of going for about it we not to that cetera. of But them or make shareholders. company will it, et mortgage being to some peers as value continue our either friends and as of years, importantly, higher more think the have then about want shareholders that is As Fortress things amount think book gone and part -- side, have before that on have tell think attempts It's the it, it IPOs we're out taken or dividends, sure earnings with but one, you've going come public be tremendous that seen amount you for just But when gone we've we companies. you some value been well. and over show really some that's from higher when those of the it, it's recent table. to do to we others of we there just okay, we and when one add higher sure want the has create, companies we something make of on the

We it in side of that markets. have experience, world to relates the of obviously, as a lot

today $XXX think or billion with, when mortgage of I look million. north the NRZ company of give making cash, take you at $X

the side, we was poised amortization. quarter, I example, amortization think the side are million. on MSR for $XXX to slower Fourth see on

As production. think to going that down, I you're see comes do lower

is to MSR the think essentially how day. evaluating So side around think with we're go. with and that we origination side we the to about that But play something ready every

Kevin Barker

companies? new Would when about in part expect capitalizing you we Or then that put order be at shareholders equity would equity about business? ratio? million how the of And to where the expect companies you go the in to in to you it capital would in be $XXX was operating separate think a X the already the of disclosure Okay. subsidiaries. think spin-off, that place companies, the with existing million and you -- about the And of see you $XXX should operating would that's separation, X operating

Michael Nierenberg

go to capital to honest. these of the -- don't out in again, we don't think equity to able be say, companies to lot company initiatives -- be public raising a thing There's mortgage company. I would to and or have our I either do think company. A raise different enough And whole direction, the about bringing what about an debt. go around a capital we as have, raising public there uncle They have

value the shareholders. For us, is reason that there. only It's separation would this do more to create for and create we

system, enough at I it just we be think And likely the But company, so capital capital separately, so spend. could could question, a and this just to we there's would -- it the your in we enough spin point, that. to do in capital assume think now, could or if or for it a there's be could just wanted I raise

Kevin Barker

of operating economic there from were type And a subsidiaries a that Is in created. transaction part given the the that was today? was with also there anything SPAC preclude of -- SPAC some structure that's place Okay. then to having you

Michael Nierenberg


do I What as to are in doesn't things anything companies you for NRZ. it team tell the Here's, enables The it at many that SPAC. a evaluate us do does think on with space. services is different look would about to and us management SPAC have the really ways financial to

either been smarter. company NewRez us between tell -- NewRez. this X of you a would to point, keeping companies, probably part the that public some spin as part So SPAC always makes I through part keeping there as from preclude by it type on And or approached lot the keeping relationship it taking sorry, would SPACs to part Baron of to of -- I of SPAC relating a we've Clearly, at this IPO and NRZ. continue public a as taking an number obviously then likely or vehicle. a And alluded NRZ, earlier. focus of be and us I'm


question Eric Hagen BTIG. with next from Our comes

Eric Hagen

channel, you term differ you're the potentially you give staffed more in be the feel the do at MSR where from about cohorts the the I market some be maybe of can underwriters here? just on can this and have comfortably originations. you point? around can how terms on? you rental. securitization single-family thinking in non-agency officers origination Are the how right feel for you Can separately, guys That And think market with on like A heard on you on detail which your competitive, notes into you go business hedging then more move? helpful. now? couple on looking mention color share you bit is MSR side, rates MSR the really eye Then financing and another origination little to add I you And some a the loan would

Michael Nierenberg


question, on gave which the questions. was X So first us -- you

Eric Hagen

MSR was question. the first Hedging my

Michael Nierenberg

have would the with hedging you tell our mortgages what mortgages long we the MSRs, long. against the against On hedges of is also I MSRs, were that

an take are at -- a are X, So bias about space, of gave to a loans on other X X side I'll to value one, the X% trading rates. some the before basis. strong realize against around loan basis that It's a lot net-net, having to higher environment reperforming talk but protect to question But XXXX. to today, is in MSR, protect to, the rate something that look we mortgage X.XX% Part on why SFR non-agency there's biased where the in just don't space up unlevered use you yields. about higher we think When you non-agency the question space. X% and opportunities the

in us world, now. For the our of we risk cost the right for doesn't think it that capital probably way and return work about

see of shareholders. in on huge there. that for and selling QX of some call So comments is when or we think I don't securities in our lot mortgages, a Thus, would and return equity IRR agency buying opportunity a I what pickup loans credit-related some

something we clearly, or SFR Today, Quite XXX is there. look frankly, space, think at homes. about that have, the take, we space I As were it's that obviously give ago. started not early we years many

companies that it's we're is a focused space. from about market We're to out with rent, working different geographies, and with our return. homes. in to to so expect insurance earlier, hard banks on overall rate on We adding specific on managers we're other term some roughly I collect X.XX% financing have and cap business. what week think that a not We XX product. did I working about renovate a point a we're -- cap call to perspective, It's would financing, unlevered financing, rate with XX% -- more

it great grow. I may or to company may not expect you that That bought ours. which we preservation and dramatically, partner property called we grown a Guardian, years think As X pretty They're a a has recall, company is business. about of continue is ago, to

area it's focus. So an of

on to our non-agency of in today, that mortgage take, is could that out I closer point want forward. But way. market. about very think we I with with to bigger think other XX%. the to an X% I lot the everything look referenced There going something unlevered a of accretive -- part levels we did be expect don't we would continue The point very, be we the perspective, business company cheap. non-QM. there. capital unlevered see that to capital. maintain see we a to and or to have about not are here to We from ways that's to side, We patient yields give importantly, XX% cash most chase turn deploy starting on be cash MSRs that flow as higher of is financing an out in that We're

are are believe, on have to for we and his large little rate do extremely If we'll company. things which our offset staffing? earnings you a rates see. portfolio to We'll to see to in there. conversely, bit market, the continue grow focus a So there. side, Baron poised and hopefully the origination I going continue a that, around continue good Baron, and team Higher grow amortization. Obviously, hiring other want we to about rally large a amount to be, will of talk

Baron Silverstein

is that side above I flip look punching the weight, mean, Yes. at however, it. are we to currently to I we're hire as continuing our would

we're across our continue -- had. to our of outperform the channels of think different that teams I growth our and versus amount we've all servicing

continue So the efficient more our build that appropriately, that to think sized continue we looking to out be we're end to at processes occur. top we in that rate if that the On environments, do. was technology, of we I higher to will extent up being we'll as

the whether that's However, the employees, sales on continue we excuse -- definitively even on me, to side. staff still or hire fulfillment side on the


with question Crédit Harter Suisse. Doug comes next Our from

Douglas Harter

increase of Michael, you into is context for do you forecast? of XXXX? slides some are in assuming show hoping steady forecast? that around in baked kind How up you that you put the a put much more the could state earnings kind that projected earnings of rate of that subsequent Or

Michael Nierenberg


I we look our some the earlier, we forecast as at do think the macro I as in number going lower the put mortgage EBITDA that XXXX of to at there alluded we market, -- rise. are economists the the we've million. I rates at because about we to tighter think from as $XXX going think think was volumes. or XXXX we out different out or just come margins to look is look company and million. The going around environment $XXX at, was either numbers world rates grown and to that the origination off look MBA we forecasts for marketplace, you're see We

it the certain want be and in not the just to relates We about we in growth us, specifically that, -- this DTC is we're to think channels, you disparaging. more for not as -- we're not channel. As where

to talked about our to gain we get hopefully us that's numbers there. that ability Baron when share, in So the to going market project

thing. we look projection, you a something million $XXX million and million a it at feel that's is in but $XXX-ish around really project think if purely 'XX $XXX we 'XX, to Now doable for

time, to we doing get I us full long business you this to stimulate bill You to think, before $XXX up bill got see continue to government points up back in long, roll as XXX year. XX for easily economy to the to could rates points XX-year out, employment million the we a -- of after a $XXX really XX end are -- where try treasury, million know believe basis market the from going and and next where it, is at a the that's this been basis is year.

heard employment You things next full say, year. Yellen could be see

the vaccine. have You COVID

economists considering So the think marketplace. factors and this with all the in different think of is what -- consulting is some forecast our we I and

Douglas Harter

And then thinking about the dividend.

then So $X.XX. right ratio Obviously, rate rising kind covering dividend payout if I easily dividend paths and are I those potential back slight the about other earnings the different do you the of today environment you get guess to guess, you in for kind is? can that how of about what scenarios? thinking how think the

Michael Nierenberg

everybody $X.XX, knows. a we Maintaining our quarters in $X.XX very our March, raised dividend Obviously, our for $X.XX which or to very, is want $X.XX cut dividend row. difficult So a We three us. as during dividend. grow from period we or

policy. back the as get earnings, see believe a So truly core we'll normalized to that we're grow, company to going dividend higher to and continues we

our So dividend. raise we'll

hope earnings you'll rise see and rates rise, do I we I would grow higher would they expect as if dividends. -- So


The from next comes Bose with KBW. George question

Bose George

Is same for Just earlier GSE Or see else kind you in put MSRs to noted like work the that response that do And is anywhere of to had it best yield there? MSRs. on out an the the on Or are Ginnie side? Mae? question, to you the then unlevered you'd just returns money X% now?

Michael Nierenberg

Ginnie of element multiples conventional. because, multiples, Mae Ginnie versus versus in MSR way that than risk your MSRs we our an conventionals there's obviously, Ginnie lower conventional, the So are credit view

perspective, all both, company. a in we there's in. there a would are X.X% between X.X%. X% anything not prepayments think, that to guesstimations MSR frankly, going out business, and business, other and great are X%, for investment our you operating there's, is where to terrific. think to the or again, these than on lot much So X% And where higher going anything in quite based rate From assume an I ourselves equity invest to again, The return environment, of come lead higher on in earnings our is where

in we're consumer would to us there's stay continue consider, If that going a there the for we thing there in for space space, business If where that. But we're being core If was investors. would the on operating growth was the focus, now, in likely MSR to consider existing business something portfolios, our that. and we then SFR -- call that's growth in a different for and something, business, opportunistic good, the pretty So one-off do focused. example, to business. our

Bose George

And the core is like you think on again, number, earnings? Okay. that more most at since people than look looking that economic be rate, that? earnings are return core Because do helpful. then which is When you similar feel the at return, you Slide Great. to going helpful. That's at run I X, where to economic fairly $X.XX showed it's was a that

Michael Nierenberg

as let get Let -- to X a me just for little think about second. Yes. a me context we give you

the As was to mortgage together XXX, prepayments, Josh about for a XX-year was us and slide. CPR. XX-year When and back the earnings treasury just think going X.X%, to sense, we think a put you XXXX, we give has rate amortization is about XX our

XX X.X%. You rate fast XX-year forward was amortization rate treasury basis to QX XX, mortgage that was of points the was and our double XXXX, at the XX-year

be we point. our going that MSRs, think going think you some that about core earnings earnings. is to we'll -- We increase, will as and dividends see increase, amortization rate how So where to to to you're our back we run huge what I'm $X.XX. place And driving is, a boon of at this, to dividends think normalized at lower will as that's a get get a result, on

portfolio, amount We the is different happened If mortgages. for was government our what's of buy pre-COVID. to help March about essentially, of March in is X-week during -- risk last financing that our agency difference credit then, the back that think you no go year, large -- stuff agency little to fair of a agencies What locked then a very down back The because period us. sold everywhere. we company, had to we had waited

then them ultimately big way of wasn't we them. now we the sold bought the difference is near securities. company the government and between billion anywhere before $X So non-agency now. functioning is it sold the But And mortgage

have difference you cylinders. still fast of still but the is And large forward, mortgage is all don't portfolio on agency kind same, of that company we as So have credit, portfolio. clicking we is in this the the large MSR the company business the

trying mortgage point, higher you'll So some see a lower as expect we you because up. all about the pedal the their -- continue to fiscal got to that foot at from everything to off perspective, they they're And they're at think government And rate take do. fund and amortization, to mortgage creep point to rates else some mortgages stop that, rates. a standpoint that buying from these

Bose George

sense. that flat rate guess essentially No, see to up you if was I while year definitely $X a Yes. could I at making -- the your get makes was at scenario to what that we just value trying keeping same plays out, you book could time?

Michael Nierenberg

to No, up. $XX.XX. of out book value go up which the going the Yes. end value from is went from year. think to today, book I Book I value $XX.XX is pointed

increase, continues and to earnings value I continue increase. think to book

the So yes is answer yes. and

Bose George

a just NRZ macro hedge have now, of piece. Okay. servicing the obviously piece the then Right That's potentially. the to about essentially great. origination kind the question, And actually, earlier provides back going separation to

at of you extent the the more the would is that a proactive hedging the on to REIT side? where essentially there change So business separation, to be kind have model

Michael Nierenberg

its the hedges separate from hedges company On NewRez from currently -- our which pipeline, NRZ. own its the is company mortgage own separate mortgage which today, is pipeline,

function As you if some the company own public, all you even when own as its a company. company in into we markets, public because know, would XX% equity because public go essentially, these would the the so it's the markets. there typically, NRZ companies the gets relationship or take forward, would still be Obviously, separation, as if of sold was there

the be sheet flow unless or So how NewRez depending to we where but side, transaction be NRZ with that either it you of balance upon do NewRez an transaction other make each there'd basis continue NewRez. where obviously, to think affiliation on with that on standpoint, better does to would a there's excess flow a sort capital-light still a that, some origination go-forward would way relationship likely from or


next The Laws with Raymond from Stephen James. question is

Stephen Laws

follow-up Harter's Two to earlier. questions Doug questions

First on volumes.

I and Page think trying to Page XX X. reconcile

purchase next refi channels that less of of your was XX% we on might Page think, You've And Page more I is blended scenarios which about or -- down of or about in should think others from X of out a was how which X, page end to, activity? we slide the if a on impacting sale where kind year, than look basis, pointed? gain that X, decline disproportionately Page say, The X margin got about or certain NBA. be longer-term a by refi. under XX%, impacted of volume, you XX%, refi Can $XX so I billion which was talk the on the rate potentially think

Baron Silverstein

money that you platform if size direct-to-consumer our given a direct-to-consumer significant say, on would channel, we have of we I remain number size Well, refinance of from XX our in a consumers in up versus of our the the that perspective. focus right, even still service servicing the a rates portfolio scenario,

lead that acquisition our of still direct-to-consumer we to So On long. that, we do growing believe with is overall strategy. runway respect channel our talk about top our

as rate the we of the in view market is how other forecast forecast the as we're the any MBA thought as continue of economists rates opposed performance or the gradual another gradually at looking will perspective increase increase at The -- direct-to-consumer to the from to to overall. that to channel a is look

Michael Nierenberg

bit QX you've growth in you What you've side? be? little from what direct-to-consumer to a the expect quarter-over-quarter done talk you and what Won't of the to seen

Baron Silverstein

should just from the third to have between quarter And other quarter. and That was primary about third the the the I you talked -- Right. the Certainly, fourth quarter. fourth decline reason the quarter because margins in compressed margins. mention earnings for thing just over briefly the

December. margins of do noted ended where a JV January, and our in competitive channels our direct-to-consumer in from channels. our the have under However, pressure Albeit they That's third-party across seen market. remain stabilization specifically to we

in they of they to where believe a -- do were that as year they're context we where However, as ago. were to

and billion. for fund overall, will more with we're of grow before, and channel. respect more to The this we is largest funded -- the We our be continued funding by month January, December that our progression see In other direct-to-consumer at our out thing and first to alone, for I more That within volume. we we growth direct-to-consumer to $X.X funded in we mentioned business going was actually continue the to quarter half loans remainder of XXXX. for to believe the and continue least continuing what that that the

Stephen Laws

rough Great. taxable And in per versus relative the much give grow distribution addition on retaining as dividend? us you getting of in as of to retained? to about a rough a earnings for the low share the or as of much you rate to possible dividend versus follow-up how back or flexibility And $X.XX how when have that $X.XX mid-single retaining thoughts payout. subsidiary [indiscernible]? your dividend the earnings that by the you Can And to REIT to value outlook would a some be growing maybe run $X.XX to think simply that to approximation a be digits levels book to in of there income

Michael Nierenberg

back about is, and there, think were, number we Stephen. So a $X.XX to dividend If get do we going throw to obviously, a our that. we to to as could everybody. we just One where we're questions Pre-COVID, couple to of $X.XX. grow

for that. something March, like earnings the were projecting I I we core think our or quarter $X.XX was, think, early

gains of get think REIT out be what taxable to be our compressed. gets assuming get our subsidiary you continue will business, paid chunk of MSR good about mind, your form that or shareholders. in portfolio, excess to Keep a out? paid as generated $X.XX, the earnings which likely So from what's in that of when A in will origination REIT XX% our a taxable the

but company billion would from a that that have the come portfolio, of MSR taxable. which a mortgage So going it's a Obviously, be we lot of taxable, stuff sits is lot in TRS. $XXX to not in the the

Stephen Laws

you Kind course action? about as -- think the calendar what on the you a is of details lastly, as Is And spin of right how first when that? the that half? of you of talk -- it make far or some that separation QX covered IPO decision Great. do you've timing a may on entity. Can when you potential decision? or Is the about provided occur,

Michael Nierenberg

it's an in say think that to we've at raised markets. would like if the we're ton point work decision. Fortress, capital public and for a IPOs meaning I And everyday and going earlier shareholders, done we I it's there. of spins out did

REIT higher raise and it's grow every thing make drives help something capital can mortgage to to shareholders the that's that understands. beneficial got for So and be I but company, take sure to just earnings higher truly we shareholders. to which the dividends we separate X, want have to That's the do it one Because it's everybody a public. evaluate not company a day, public

to to earnings grow And to policy dividends that core is to to Our where $X.XX we we correlates, grow obviously, why to that pre-COVID. get the make that's comparable That's in alluded main we a sure our earnings. thing now place. right so-called back we that dividend were and


The comes with next question Compass from Bologna Giuliano Point.

Giuliano Bologna

and as the to likely the a quick ancillary about here. businesses, similar as the of we I'll servicing the of back origination potentially with some business, separation businesses. platform Going When possible topic, think operating you'd separate and be the

even structure first disclosures, your trying is how right in refusal? figure going couple around subsidiary. in origination transferring the from of big to because language the One portion you generating originator, or you're how them REIT that? relationship the a quarters in the to it the selling of of or out kind forward as segment originating questions and a a of kind put where at versus to is there describing over them would as the REIT changed just be I'm could MSR a MSRs you you're sale loans agreement the last the servicers you a might that now work the flow structure Would to Because transfer. of the

Michael Nierenberg

NewRez we flow out, the a REIT. between can look and could you think have you did have at point number I a NRZ it ways. agreement and I did of a if company, separate

You and way. company and them retain could balance to then would that also sheet could public do sheet upon it all where sell either grow the MSRs earnings. it to them And that overall stayed depending capital depending on upon -- NewRez be the it and the or continue into balance markets on their --

So I think it really depends.

to think this you large NRZ, think call. amount discuss about investment we hit we has morning this that of the rates. I that I great something benefit higher have going from like the articulate is, yet MSRs way portfolio -- on we'd on think a to company didn't our one, When business that a are that at we

have loan is and bond a in the portfolio We locked -- perspective. down that a financing from

have which where an business, in in rates. think position agency we helps protect the to a higher again business, NewRez, agency MSR rate mortgage us origination position, When servicing mortgage a have great you an hedges about business. MBS operating our we just the We have you company against hedge portfolio. have then And

just of any that brand And division of business. Really, we Shellpoint, don't really discuss appraisal as this one You lines have the a morning business is get and area for. a that business. really which ancillary the servicing which didn't credit under servicer, is is we special the title the

example, between that, title around at kind that of about on could sheet. is our for the running number business turn think and $XXX assume that $XXX the could the multiple business production of in that So 'XX million, title of just million you of you that's something, and some captured business a if amount you origination argue you and for look, and something on appraisal worth do our and million do others even value business and a you market, we argue $XX not balance have business,

MSRs businesses, REIT ancillary given being So NewRez, capitalization the some the whether NRZ at there's ancillary and the these look be between The sold take, is when around of no so of at for give point book, you that. or credit something it businesses. trades,

we are different a understood not the as there's to I that probably well to our things marketplace. lot that have we'd think as articulate portfolio of in like

Giuliano Bologna

also million pretax might think great with like business? but plus value business the at I up operating million MSRs the of of ancillary I couple the least, end there that of what's made maintain originator be of on conceptually the there the it the of a and the guess, sounds one have $XXX the that big is on the Because helpful retain a option on third on NewRez to side. $XXX business had servicer -- that probably then points income. business, quarter, you or you did of comes book that, side the questions is at service

any So an platform might business, do how it really is like it's not really you the And question retaining there that that? next but within shouldn't more then be that comes value then up that other a sounds be option? And -- MSRs always book capital? beyond deploy are it options

Michael Nierenberg


our a lot tools of chest. there's I think in tool so-called

think and out to a been we've was. not of not by but made of is we're progress seems that back lot that focus, unleash trades how to one sole doing higher and the focus that black we're to focus I like need focused about we knight drive because to quite towards focus Our our to It ancillary even we months. get where of we've X a in this are title what I that of black we earnings that's years, what dividend the at sole the we think sole back of And our want the the think XXx lot means, some But really, if get over sole to Clearly, lot our dividends? at we a brought higher pre-COVID And past it the businesses company up that's on the EBITDA, marketplace. need any XX we kind frankly. to is That to of a of these you and knight valuations -- there's headway on. we course at a look is do do. that of I we a place days, and value how things, as drive of But stuff work get that. do is -- the continue for out -- where

So if it's NewRez, back that that book do be ways will -- levels, by to out there's value getting higher think spinning by happen. -- whether -- to it the and we

about earnings in pumped sit where cash really of our company. we potential with for the growth I'm the amount So and


comes question from Coffey next The Henry Wedbush. with

Henry Coffey

the there like financing, to do the could do there the and a gets get talking same dividend back is debate We're the servicing. there's us and about to you because mortgage no all optimal finance REIT's the of the about just it And on if earnings, if smoothly to we're origination over company what, focused company the obviously and working combination REIT the over. you and mortgage the share. said, how together, thing The is that to -- almost $X.XX

then valuation And build if a that issue key close look of appropriate just open special is goes the maybe we title And the the look businesses pieces. going to where? the and the building So we then look question services. goes at the and on -- ancillary we're originator at we're X-part a of each at REIT, If servicer what getting your and to the even other what we and where model, where? servicer leads

Michael Nierenberg

Good question.

company. at company that clearly, then part back I of parts of get what the capture kind portfolio the X point that biggest Xx book. some the which And we on mortgage a of assume for that's traded to need such at we valuation towards I -- that the to composition, the really -- if we think is think book, you biggest something -- are it that, of Henry, mortgage And obviously, is the make multiple comes valuation down how we that mortgage just sure shareholders. we at company, thought the the migrate

NewRez NewRez vehicle company. Now on or frankly, truly of company. if And and that a and doesn't think NRZ some that, between agreement have depends mortgage the mean other valuation you flow couldn't some you other it quite the or NewRez I did and

the hoped some these commented about their have financial profile, the compared well And recent of traded down from in of on, we've to as thing the point think I a as the relative services make IPOs companies. pretty mortgage to some earnings I values I general, think early based some different in I as that a would seen anybody basis I is, companies, other companies that in related projected for. lot are other of on frankly, But think space. at -- haven't and them, actually happened road SPAC money the these market, cheap the on some quite that are have probably of to

don't down, look for to our question place. So we think a A, three at companies? we We just where mortgage there's get Part in more business, that, answer monetize us, about as now higher But creating that that you can and interest for value out, extract separate we're share. I for It's easy we we MSR to know try it's implied how $XX book -- a or me, slow traction page we $XX how investors, by great company. and to put Couple rates, can Baron C. pointed a really value we with to paid that... any I speed the it's of all the gain direct-to-consumer If do B in that show of that

Henry Coffey

the tough the an do right Yes. a that projecting investor sentiment just No, of business you way looks to the better do in that mortgage into of earnings that negative I can we an and And might It's the then banks companies job it's right kind get around for make what would now. show just that is in there. understatement balance is you mortgage easier it like? that the we say the understand Maybe argue just average the sheet almost REIT. can even to us plug so can road

Michael Nierenberg

Yes. get it. I

the to to different and But the the of we continue really company a profitability this obviously, convey what I Kait more articulate did the story, think quarter, that. mortgage channels. is could we do tried show how do full about breakout we'll and kudos and and to in to team, think to our

Henry Coffey

of mortgage company sub-servicer? or about we as MSRs as think the more a owning Should

Michael Nierenberg

the and I about mortgage value, and all and origination good then the quantum would another creation own capital-light question would assume that that. from create do The we we would it's a If vehicle trade just the better Again, with is servicing at think and I company just party, as earnings it's going selling to own? we're value of it pretty that. would what's MSRs. MSRs how to MSRs

on valuations higher of we the public see different businesses, be I that value what kind types back of private and I where that you. now of we're the to So do it quarter, very call, we're companies ancillary it at call and after, extract markets, have would I first a tough what in what markets, would continue whether to think second poised -- things good really

Henry Coffey

in are this and extremely I right. No, the breakout you helpful. is mean deck

enormous and -- So represents of amount probably an work.


comes next with Jason Your Stewart from JonesTrading. question

Jason Stewart

beat the on company. think mortgage horse I we've the

agency helpful? allocated the was could So net net If the fourth was if what portfolio and talk of you how I in Could it quarter? about would quickly. ROE that hedges, be could you investment to to much capital sort include the of back switch

Baron Silverstein

$XXX of market ended agency agencies. The total in capital with $XX million. that's We allocated quarter the billion the approximately book is to value

Jason Stewart

fourth And approximation the was an contribution what in the or give earnings quarter? can to you of ROE

Baron Silverstein

$X.XX $XX or was earnings million core the approximately to quarter. for contribution The

Jason Stewart

And understand Okay. then I your Michael, point.

Obviously, we that factors I were bps, and up, see speeds think As year. interplaying are the far quarter-to-date XX go rates go so rates other are this should they're some up XX-year in fourth quarter, There down. XX Can maybe there, add spreads you then come and if terms out, all you And secondary tighter of factors primary those about talk you how burn together. think one just could plays that in MSR? point. more out up the

today, on book any the the in For your was number there increase for value multiple MSR?

Michael Nierenberg

give slight would seeing Multiples in to in X.XX%. sense, let's business What you a was low multiple there Yes, just I the are what correspondent the conventional the X% a to about still the have right MSR. on or just origination multiples, you now We're give on now, channel. increase overall. Xs, production -- use in take in the call you're

On see the we X.XX% to Ginnie something X.XX-ish, X.X%. around multiple side,

dramatically. up you've lows seen go from the multiples fairly So

overall book low XX/XX our pointed Xs. I in ended out, the with As on multiple an we

call As much as government -- they buying the competing we production. $X think it, is we of about factors, -- clearly, other a all look at week buy, pretty billion

we get slow stop world, will more or as normalized think would that at down. You some to point, a that will

speeds come As happens, to you're see that going off.

rate one on overall. the point we've tighten primary pretty a secondary seen dramatically, good is because mortgages Your

rates back let's Fannie say, in unchanged the and You've since from seen in basis price. are the tenure XXX points up, to year XX-year the of end XX X.Xs

of overall, buying, a at tightening I So subside will again, result spreads of And some government as point. slower think you'll amortization. see that

also, not a So but the thing it's think, rate I market, treasury point, sponsorship to your in it's just government. from only the


question next Securities. JMP comes with from The Trevor Cranston

Trevor Cranston

more channel. question the One Great. on DTC

the awareness. that One to was should that be strategy originations think you the But around future guys recapture part you're brand the And as going that of DTC about the of performance. is in brought on the brand the I improving that? how working of you at up non-portfolio also aimed wondering and increase context in we initiatives increasing put long-term increasing effort awareness, in to channel

Baron Silverstein

market either But where we include potentially how we customer We've see existing be changes ways, strategies initially going customers is and least be our our our in -- just context may for that's are. be looking externally on company existing strategy they home even our we even new refinance will X website. both overall market, to customers, what employees, what customers think launched launched, actually our and we but we for look already or -- also our a going we'll at the overall to of and overall. to their awareness brand NewRez The buy how how evaluate Yes. our customers to basically it how evaluate new internally at

is will our the wholesale joint that take -- our Obviously, to is to we and as a brand NewRez. but brand channel into venture down our initiative. it channel, the partnerships So to our when board direct-to-broker that the it strategy launch well as for for bring impact us direct-to-consumer multipronged then expanding plan across

to X each of be our direct-to-consumer across directly we're going channels all to talking it's those of So where consumers.

Trevor Cranston

Got it.

valuations. the interest Okay. MBS and And about question between follow-up on the and rates one then interplay MSR

rates just So when to rates guys point Page look treasury clarify, and plus in plus that XX of would a rates. X be in increase? kind the I realistically you actually we show basis similar guess, saw treasuries, amount? would mortgage you and mortgage at assume generally you speaking, Do much if XX up bps And we how increase a that XXX expect to

Michael Nierenberg

or started March came buying they I a you all the It's that a all support government to bid mortgages. crystal think, as and pre-COVID back, out there had the even week And great until we look do to mortgages related the going question. government obviously, it's Fed for X no product. for in announced wish were I until start see I -- And where came as I days, period was know ball. the out

So when mortgage I to assume rates, two I we there, at mortgage refinancing at look if industry, also you to have great have they mean, they're I of factor. think burnout mortgages. in we the are. going you're rates. backup the look some a mean, players out largest really at

just So I you as you're basis XX-year think have are we perspective, last a on note to out, points below think little where going the burn creep year. going mortgage up. XX about touched you're we rates from rate a to

will rates Because we be Your cheaper relative happens mean, go all rate prime than slow secondary X.X%. going to treasury, a what there's not down. your to where overall, treasuries result speeds say, I'm will at treasuries. buy a it, do call buy players not mortgages, these dramatically. sudden that value think I And you'll mortgage these as has of XX-year -- just higher because, why a They things of tightened real rates. a will it's I good question But very and really a see


closing Michael like back now any to This to conference turn concludes over Nierenberg would for our the question-and-answer remarks. session. I

Michael Nierenberg

updating to Thanks. Thank everyone, you. well. and you questions your and support all your for Thanks, the look and forward quarter, everybody, throughout stay


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