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New Residential Investment (NRZ)

Participants
Michael Nierenberg Chairman, President & Chief Executive Officer
Nick Santoro Chief Financial Officer
Baron Silverstein President
Jordan Licht Chief Operating Officer of Newrez/Caliber
Bose George KBW
Kevin Barker Piper Sandler
Eric Hagan BTIG
Douglas Harter Credit Suisse
Trevor Cranston JMP Securities
Giuliano Bologna Compass Point
Call transcript
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Operator

Good day, and welcome to the New Residential Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2021 Earnings Call. All participants will be in a listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions] After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. [Operator Instructions] Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to [Bohi Yu]. ahead. go Please

Unidentified Company Representative

and thank Jason, Residential's everyone. would I Quarter Thank for good joining to you Earnings New us like XXXX you, Call. morning, today Fourth for

are supplement call, Chief Financial of Chief earnings of President reference today was Joining are CEO us Also Operating we NewRez/Caliber. Officer to the to Nierenberg, and Baron the and Santoro, Residential; Officer Silverstein, New and President me are posted Nick going of Michael Residential that with New the today this website Residential. Throughout Chairman, Licht, Jordan New morning.

nature, not from so, contained will uncertain presentation you today point statements If and already you regarding and download our like supplement the that results. to to and out encourage press factors materially be forward-looking quarterly the our forward-looking filed have may actual I to the encourage are risk review would in done release their the I'd I SEC. statements. statements in disclaimers you with These earnings reports annual certain and review differ now. by statements,

addition, these In most the to discussing will earnings our comparable measures non-GAAP with found over I supplement. call directly Michael. be measures in measures GAAP can the to Reconciliations call. And we during today's turn financial that, be of some will

Michael Nierenberg

that's decrease building balance replicate. our portfolio an of higher us year team strong value for our keeping MSR should our very Thanks, the assets shareholders as [Bohi]. strategy well through our of our amortization, to Good the sheet as very book morning, forward. acquiring retention any and The for customers we portfolios With hard everyone, positioning ability origination our as as as shareholders dialing companies in. for with our good rising, continued well earnings. manufacture should today company in investment see and drive will slower and was a rates world-class offset go we thanks of own to much our drive investment XXXX to interest experience for returns our company operating efforts as and enable

one to put XX% incentive $XX We and and value only XXXX with this where coupled approximately borrowers today the MSRs have of Today, as XX% largest increase value XX-year upper was do refinance per in of our rates when into interest portfolio and which the as compared increased. a helped the today have book bit rates, To rise rising number treasury, to that in XXs. little to $XX.XX south of has basis share. context, the our points between since mortgage XX risen stand we year-end, MSR

had the August NewRez in very anywhere. addition best has good Caliber nonbank which the mortgage company a mortgage companies created of closed year, of one Our and

not best, the be to is goal Our biggest. the

with rise. repeated. not been efforts Many rate will on of to working in pressure done so past customers will care customers margins on taking the We initiatives as continue under on offering partners our business our million very rates good. The solutions for origination government affordable better wanted well years in have have come two homeownership. be as housing focus will mortgage refinance as X.X who to They environments. Gain lower

climate to our will example is this great on we to channels have levers enable whatever sale it which can our we gain different in looks the As pull, to business, non-QM the A us like. relates origination many origination quickly channel. and growth adapt of

XXX%, fourth and in over originated production million. year-over-year the numbers quarter, are $XXX we Our up

We of the expect something number quarter that in close to first to $X billion XXXX.

into sale, we a and will not with market about war share anyone. think As price on get you gain

We are share. not about market

acknowledge existing where acquisition. on focus portfolios. the strong a rates purchase our our retail of improve a have result like on Caliber make to as money, areas retention we franchise also can we will I We would

will we integration this forward, market of and organizations, the percentage and Jordan the larger shortly, speak for two coming much we extremely origination The purchase are will to of market be what's has a the to along ahead. well. going As been come go well positioned

Our new as a customers with Digital of Chief Officer, team, leadership hire coupled of digital will path providing continue down our experience. our help us [indiscernible] with existing the great

Jordan of to Rossmann] starting shortly. team the to that the of his work two grow and to as we're expense we combination see and very saves. Genesis synergies acquisition are with on closed the help quarter, that business. a [Robert In with Capital, result excited fourth Again, We will significant companies the of the speak to

we Just coupon refresh Company, your When we our the duration X% banners. of billion acquired acquired lender. approximately memory, to that's short assets $X.X fix-and-flip for a

is the On other portfolio at higher looking classes for focus investment Residential volatility opportunities New side, the supplement, I'm the refer posted course, the has our overview. stay SFR on asset better call rights, begin bond with the coupled X. investment in market, additional growing we'll I'll create corporate business and Page financial us. services should as MSRs, space, yields This the to which now online. been to going in

in rolling back we Just in billion paid dividends. inception, since $X.X time,

net in cap Our market is equity, roughly billion. book equity $X.X billion $X

that remarks non-bank acquired in you over originator at you from businesses of $XX.XX. just that owner think we've if non-bank quoted servicer. $XX of X placeholder. or sheet dividend dividend I highlights at $X.XX was balance or $X.X end and title, We're years, income, give a opening it was our billion of Caliber highlights. $XX.XX diluted would past MSRs, out and yield. the Genesis per per a end value, $XXX acquisition complementary earnings, services about mortgage to X.X% the August closed $XX. field share, stock in diluted we the Genesis. up the of net to of number then, remarks, was deal And top year what acquisition three five a in $XX.XX pointed fourth million XXXX higher. for a the to million common of closed have Today, of I call of value largest book about $XXX.X We appraisal, the the assets. mortgage share; changer approximately GAAP our quarter. other game drive business in $X.XX $X.X then $X.XX I XXXX. financial businesses, liquidity core again, helped at Capital. December, the space That quarter, of and for approximately Page which or my Cash earnings Book And business. includes of mortgage billion. fourth sits billion, the The our

Shareholder core preferred earnings of full $X good IRS. around which bit stock mortgage company, a we we year securitization. $X.XX, on portfolio Page as returned one XX%, we Ocwen. MSR an where say, grew are billion on time, again, We're year, really And did the the operating really with capital the and During to today. offering. did of then well is side little a a stock and in growth and $XXX a sit $XXX where our common under offering manager advances think asset the as focused company we our and a from MSRs we NRZ and business portfolio. business, investment highlights, in great with little formation service, well a when Cooper, you today, companies. billion, a company complementary got proud formed evolution. includes of about as REIT company with We at loans, LoanCare small the to was servicing X first between million portfolio that the asset make to X as be grew. originated with MSR This Mr. and what $XXX which and origination We into own Over servicing good mortgage have billion we mortgage happen strategic both owner. really I in status, XXXX Page our would loan

out this this rise. XXX go as earlier, gains up the Genesis. in pointed we morning, I portfolio. acquisition our further $X.XX, see interest note value in MSR morning, market As should on note XXX closed of MSRs tenure value With Dividend rates tenure

non-daily billion page, Another end a the today year, our about at business portfolio Cash at XX% X, call our this our just Page of the the and just the strong. out, the left quick liquidity to really look of away business. of business thing agency from billion talks remains point $X.X or right side to $X.X is and mark-to-market. have

that Xx a risk to Market the is originate the loans We and provider retention, and have between belief Xx our around than real of have relates going we it of in today, then origination zero activities. to loans Fed is MSR and somewhere that and mortgage non-Agency is service our company a our Genesis as bunch a building estate security XXXX. of portfolio go conditions large to we virtually and other portfolio, loans industry securities. both flip Capital, our is lending, which Today, non-agency and fix

of as note expect to easing and conditions away, the of the rise We financial tenure buying treasuries. goes mortgages the to continue including

On I originate I the if loans. loan be or XXX originate we clear. one front, origination care don't if more can't we

which Our minute. origination to goal do, in money. expect that service down, to is our we talk make go Baron to And volumes them customers, and if will a

the our portfolio business. be in decrease earnings we're So to see going it than origination in more offset any

part in look of side, we non-QM. to fourth year-over-year Zero in I the quarter. mentioned the non-agency our at As business, origination the XXX

you and This prime $X growing we're well, as billion, quarter, healthy and remains expect look our delinquency when do trends. to at origination we jumbo borrower the

about we the way is we look we the have billion as we Capital a we of an roughly different property of rates marketplace. business MSRs total is assets Operating a expect XX, Asset see that for MSRs, our own you origination agency When could have the which pools Management, appraisal trillion business own Genesis non-agency the business. markets business, that balance rise. side, Page think lending businesses, On market XXXX, this the our approximately billion. MSRs, business, and for $XXX sheet purpose title the insurance preservation asset and originate business, and our Guardian $X.X for we expect at and playbook, addressable we $XXX

company, again, very to environments. side, to just as the our On interest size. origination sales making well on rate as gain not different Genesis environments, we large creating adapt on Capital speak then to money, focused mortgage ability NewRez/Caliber and

the space. at four in and as -- when on then this the significant end net-net, you look been pretty loans margins of -- at also on those be into priority year. the margins, are gain And sale jumbo I've about non-QM, loans getting growth So They're we have prime, a day. business into vocal the will 'XX, investor gain sale areas look purpose commercial

We will going dead do QX horse to a 'XX hopefully, MSR portfolio, that beat at some later. here. that's than Performance and sooner rather point I'm in not

XXXX. in XX% to the to that down compared speeds, and things now. expect as of couple and a refinance to see to little money slow under portfolio of a XX% that's down. amortization XX the truly point out, of to in We're MSR our Just at is end we speeds MSR from starting

much of think I speeds were expectations. out came couple days that street lower than a ago

continue as January, We as mortgage the expect typically year. we that go we origination slower that February, XX. Page to up but expect course through mind, in to back and to looking space, forward. in we pick of the months December, Keep go the

actually XXX look and the the and up the Just at middle do the see of to or means to in to left what rate, the take the we look what going side at of have it part side our of as page, it's amortization a just right overall portfolios, basis the in we of XX-year change part P&L rates the treasury middle points. the origination think page, that --

slow of We gain a expect and $XXX approximately $XX by million. go PTI down origination million, $XXX amortization to down million net-net, by to

the in what If you look the for of earnings. shareholders? increase $X.XX of mean core It's that side page, does an to right annual

million point The XX/XX other multiples at to increase, our of this to and is we at MSR page, rates book this you $X.X go the if forward drive XXX. going as out thing value our higher, what's end look on to up

than $X.X about up higher that. years. rights, expect for multiples to to $X.X, potentially XXX, been even and We talking Call this go

homeowner at the will down continue strategy, up continue of calling lower Our balances portfolios come and more more continue a quarter. We to the and right had strategy delinquency to of as business, X,XXX trends rental our to and advance cleans approximately million, call what I remain $XXX in end the would with a this year, you loans. -- business. go will our the is and equity first sense, just and that in to we homes. securitization we over give Total little grow expect did Single-family

We are prudent about going to it. be

or the homes just small know, roughly probably homes. it's will so, the next XXX We Zillow course announce of acquired XX it's let over from a publicly, days but of won't acquisition some it to you we announce

as to here smart come personally continue will little about home off the business home be growth we from think going we're seen. a we've to that that prices could it I think and or grow, prices So bit

loan the million. EBOs Mae at case in at sales market, portfolio side, of was or On our this All now, be business NRZ the our performing loan on redelivered of look $XXX XX, the and was $XXX Page securitization non-QM QX Right case was $X.X billion if you EBOs, Ginnie will and stuff in outright the loans. into the nonperforming of either on that. the either million end side

side, balances the advance On servicer low. remain

and look financings, there. at pointed we homeowners out to a is interest earlier, great cost have at of And the and lows you then the had rates shape. very excess capital We as our very, low when our our ton in capacity, of I

Now I'll will it the you the will mortgage to take Baron, section. highlights, who over next through and through you him and take turn Jordan company

Jordan Licht

Thank you, Michael. This is Jordan.

mentioned, as to service Michael we and integration continue and technology Caliber underway well our platform, leadership. of combine origination and As is the NewRez

'XX. look best synergies well reduced due target through we've increased practices. in of quarter, consolidation a as result $XX as These and as realized approximately you funds actions to If reductions, our of vendor and personnel of alignment million cost synergies fourth efficiencies include the taken

of consolidation, between servicing to strategy. achieve rate synergies to XXXX synergy of systems to in technology completed, $XX our million. $XX run We complete origination our million and duplicate be finalization million additional year is our platform expect Once full of XXXX to million to expected target an $XXX removal $XXX

new of production and We've helping she with our to channels. I'll engagement and now will year As our both the Chief experience with innovation, kicked turn a Michael servicing mentioned, aligned there's Officer, drive other Digital our exciting customer us and digital customers user increase vision a help it news, hired customer we companies and experience, off across single Barry. homeowners.

Baron Silverstein

Thanks, Jordan, good and morning.

quarter the PTI and for of pickup businesses, XX% The points reduction I basis gain And Slide of at look locked increased XX% respectively, biggest business, was with volume, in that XX second $XXX each quarter-over-quarter. XXXX. basis those one pretax reduction XX. to which which direct-to-consumer January flattening comparing seen Turning origination X decline December funded We've point drop a impact billion, of is the on of had our two of $XX.X the -- in over sale was margins the of of on volume an our and margins as of The ended January division approximately also income, XX%, margins, even funded which million when quarter-over-quarter. a with to quarters. XX% a volume pressure

of our basis channels, reduction approximately XX JV and retail our the margins For funded points in volume decreased with quarter-over-quarter. XX%

market to retail channels, purchase the expected within the we in While advantage platforms further come. competitive us our pressure our of allow take growth to expect

margins our channels, XX and basis XX respectively. points points, basis For third-party correspondent wholesale decreased and

rate higher competitive other provides business, advantage environment origination business strategy the over us presents headwinds for interest a while our our competitors. mono-line However, balanced

to As rightsizing our on Michael previously intend disciplined managing approach focus on the cost to mentioned, we basis. profitability, business

venture looking our our platform. towards capacity higher-margin adjust opportunistic this portion environment. include concentrating volume expenses market higher-margin non-agency that XX% also and origination in on XX% retail synergies we additional also direct-to-consumer, to products. the plans our our acquisition, through We're We're channels, partnership quarter. joint as We're which Our on the Jordan lower-margin upon our fourth which business includes over of of expand talked including non-QM going about, funded our to channels going and our expense products, decreased approximately and current to origination based savings reduce but quarter-over-quarter. MSR remain on A the and side, are was

costs. the first the on based origination for on profitability of companies, stay vigilant and plan Our efficient readjusting reducing both being focused to volumes quarter upon integration

this. our portfolio said also lock rolled we our from X.X to and models the growth we've quarter. to referred It's models the our past Slide XXXX. the distributed business these And programs, did triple of was our in volume presence fourth our quarter-over-quarter. this quarters, grow was XX% our portfolio purchase difficult non-QM differentiate Series everything JV talked of channel previously us us share Turning lock few plus though homeowners in nearly direct-to-consumer allows self-employed in with We've our replicate which to forecasted volume competition. and even fully to Michael that's these in in in market advantage out and We've Smart in been has And as for January alone, to MSR take XX. million retail about extensive approximately coupled consumers. the qualified seen market XX% but

new products on origination ability to wholesale we that relationships Series continue these new purchases sales approximately only correspondent far. and And through to XX% our participated We can coupled roll programs have been build It our NRZ And continue with products, these force to has of as to further our relationships, our with growth and our out date, with our customers. partnership will Smart continue in to our drive growth as existing see with expand retail, is purchase in so of to our programs. business. XX% relationships

of Slide special is, two first servicing, And we that by share is about can XX. in to And the dynamics our as portfolio I different Turning on capture just NRZ expectation increased X% subservicing to market size we portfolio, about our our approximately the quarter-over-quarter, XXXX. here. our things Michael talked additional given the want talk focus and but change

and head will servicing Promoting best to the build chain finalize homeowners strategies in platforms portfolio. new servicing home, red a announced servicing servicing grow caliber and that align run clients and continue third-party core for our will helping assure our The us servicing subservicing practices. our and second and focus of on point their stay of is new allow to we've both

On recapture. talking the last slide, about XX, Slide

the performance our the is where you refinance we through top recapture recapture In you'll that charts, have customer recapture. purchase originated On bottom remains right, to stronger, two whether much the a performance quarter-over-quarter. recapture see strong or ability recapture see our and previously our loan

purchase the services, market, to products purpose ability with able customers So a as take through for relationships offering ability provide interest other cash-out of in our in alternatives we recapture to we'll Michael, a will ongoing new On Even including offer in provide to in to that, and fuel home, the be a direct-to-consumer our channel. whether higher Genesis refinances, or rate equity back you. mature our business loan home higher share solutions to continue opportunities, homeowners, additional our future.

Michael Nierenberg

Thanks, Baron. Thanks, Jordan.

you. When that with Just just it But Page is, really that and back a we talks balance then up It financial quite the ourselves. lot forward. to is rate ourselves environment first provide did We'll say services Page I'm good would you our manager. go when XXXX. liquidity returns at We and and X that, to look as up on then about company, Thanks. to I'm Q&A. a for to expect very operating we'll about going we the along we company. we I a about of with is but was slide is scale, cash operator. go the our two, XX wrap full frankly, read it just it think And then to and our supplement MSR AGM as hard have in look AGM. our today, think we going to a Q&A. how of go turn XX off open businesses a truly companies. With to these complementary mortgage an investment in not origination, very, this very portfolio We lot sheet at -- strong but we'll

Operator

go George session. We first KBW. question will [Operator comes from the question-and-answer Our ahead. Please now begin Instructions] from Bose

Bose George

sale question just gain on on margins. first Actually,

how more XQ, things just pressure much could us that color noted you will see you retail just how you this on in but in play year? pressure flattening, guys some you Can forward. think seen see You think you've could a going you out give

Baron Silverstein

Yes.

all continue one month, for see our the each of Bose, we So pressure is certainly context direct-to-consumer of just in -- Month-over-month, in be have saw I what retail, to Board It's within you said we'll attractive margins channel. and margins flattening in the to and has very our been channels. from we on view looking a to channels and to just third-party pivoting clear focus that his to right? profitability that that's margins, core the less JV our continue we opportunistic message, and Michael then to and our profitability, will overcapacity on and We origination in to look which And due in pressure on we're continue production business assets direct-to-consumer across extent our that we'll at about continue we're tell basically focus those in the additional I continue perspective on see participate to our as to our the compress. channels. channels those, marketplace.

Michael Nierenberg

X earlier, Bose, just Barron's we back portfolio. whether about to out to I on a always point Rocket billion create sale, have a on at do business MSR more loan. our wholesale. a even would origination, going wholesale competition you step see are pointed you'll $XXX see MSRs, that. the side, add When you huge talk one thing if -- I look The you're keep we out and I is XX gain could huge we is loans, we To lot it's if I that more take our -- United correspondent don't and or what will loan say and in originate Wholesale because further if

we where are. now, are, in So Ginnie space and like multiples if we example, where MSR like multiples values the for right

could that. the think $XXX if correspondent we may we quite wholesale doing frankly, in channel, and billion, originate So about

originator, share for a growing us overall market focus so that market presence. lead may could the our of of Ginnie result smaller, is because but we can't as example, on Ginnie production of You into acquisition a the potential

you're until in gain you're I margins are less less have production. mean, things in the these to going winter of because months, months, one it's So

of December to a the seeing highest that XXXX we've rates You're you sense. seen also level XX-year give of since

think I we're me So the in spring, once market. settle the to good a have going come purchase market

retail DTC how really thrive, just not origination we about prudent will will be to think franchises widgets just We originating the and be making we like value business of and unless Our the want good. our about and money MSR.

Bose George

That's And Great. that the platform? the plan consolidation And one helpful. time servicing Okay. to very is -- servicing that? of just one Caliber's, what's Is it then that actually line on MSP on platform. for -- on the still to move The

Baron Silverstein

to context it, Bose, and us first we where continue final as headed. for leadership important making that is us we the a the fact basically practices in we servicing servicing to us in made that to most leadership have change up was Yes, step for we're platform, loans will which aligned. critical decision the help evaluate the a servicing The And evaluating, on. in other of on end the not sure really us sure the based fact our homeowners. making is best for That operating we're our was

Operator

next Sandler. go from question Kevin Barker Piper ahead. comes The Please from

Kevin Barker

wanted to as the Michael, to around $XX.XX Or value? your the up just book at just to up, was tangible follow I wanted that book tangible follow comments I $XX? on

Michael Nierenberg

book That's value.

Kevin Barker

Okay.

by as outline fair much marks driving or marks? And was Okay. up? maybe of much far could what's that include And that offset you mark was as portfolio And that how MSR then dividend? then quantifying does value the how

Nicola Santoro

Sure, Kevin.

keeping $XX increase that the include the for in is to. the primarily an and that change dividend, estimate And of it pickup to fair the the page marks. it in does have subsequent same range as point in follow to the And value. due basis we references deck So the MSR increase the $XX.XX does prior the

Kevin Barker

So just outlined? you that the with sensitivity

Nicola Santoro

in with correct. That's line It's that sense.

Michael Nierenberg

And across about part had we we're two potential bias. marks, think of business. hedged our other fully this your We've Kevin, as question,

value, positioned, be but maybe having way see the our else anything higher in I we we're increase rates and more that like we or of out look extremely going I the alluded really loan it towards think extent to starting whether we're remain I that this and feel we're I've to that book that to at in well forever, protected in market, hopefully, forward, portfolios, the this think higher hedges play to rates. more, see the rate environment in

Kevin Barker

you're So feel or like higher of the quite the the portfolio to biased you're to total shouldn't fully composition Or rates, relative mark hedged, your given if still do you equity? the incremental today? minimal just

Michael Nierenberg

are very frankly, We switch market significantly rallied to higher way, ton. biased start if the is quite other rates. the and business a doing flip And origination you has the you the

biased rates. now, is of as to -- of we So hedged are higher our extremely portfolio MSR fully portfolio. investment all across

like good in shape. we feel So, we're

Operator

Eric BTIG. [Operator go Instructions] Please The Hagan next question ahead. comes from from

Eric Hagen

production that? you side guys origination capital the how along flows you of with needs the -- areas other capital the can the how potentially the you might from with Can support MSR volume discuss across the business rates? and reallocating do to Like see evolve as yourself allocation business might evolve to higher interest

Michael Nierenberg

higher will to the overall. ROEs be your we're in origination to answer less first there So question for is, strive business business going unless our listen, capital yes, in

in means but produce So to and of side, anything and is the going to produce if capital side on channels. to all points, our the Baron's the more it's that that not point more non-QM on production if on put geo going wholesale going those agency we're wholesale side, to

opportunities acquire overall, some believe origination you'll as we could be find to do we I of a if or to -- think more result out, going rate likely capital a there's originators I pointed environment. smaller allocated. see the current

producers, want anything that there's else front. good some eyes don't for out our I you if example. retail have we elaborate So, Ginnie Jordan, know on on to

in As company we acquisition some. think the mortgage about the around potential

Baron Silverstein

No.

of smaller I there'll in are or -- kind to we're -- as I that seeing cash think players in think this out. environment, you in market mentioned be this exit and looking

Michael Nierenberg

to gain point, the margins we to and the answer themselves on sale And either holding on money Because folks allocate sell out MSR MSRs, is or MSRs. the to would are so yes. more is to absolutely Eric, sell your The business? their

So running you'll about of the at who's MSR on promoted job we doing fulfillment out the other for help haven't but likely capital drive that great when Bob Johnson, some the thing this, side. between into down a [Dino origination business business, a And digital with our spoken the coupled technology to origination We and Lack] on business. us the shift cost we look upside. the from who's see of just origination, side our hiring [Ninu] is

that, bring competitive to the to actually down channels, we it what enable which I in competitive may little there. more, of more As us aggressive makes our get a say, some us cost do we production, of more would need very

a of costs through down, of with on the leadership. technology and the we initiatives on that lot focus costs bringing bringing new So lot have a but down focus

Eric Hagen

really That's helpful.

think Xx noted thoughts you how on go translate Fed yield into Xx the end year. longer of expect spreads I you to curve? that to the at could a the Any

Michael Nierenberg

they long basis out XX March think we meeting, think yesterday, mortgages to out is because XX swaps call about points five XXX that's you've We every The had wrong, at could as Today The but my They go of partner, XX, were market. reinvestment and my the business, XXXX to general basis they sheet. or our reduce on of sitting we [indiscernible] XX. were Fed up. the inflation going levels rates are be next that to -- at seven. don't rock advisers. at to who's update they We some hedging are the the is we in our and a think like to were March. thing going -- and own we And here, strategies then at where could one it's me seen. are hikes, as XX our personal that buying I balance that view going XX don't stop think feeling and their in be folks highest you on paying at I around and end whether then going in have the other market they rate XXX, talking well go do go points went It good are in and -- economic not is with they whether mortgages advisers they this. have treasuries. through

So end, rates I really long amount fair a I go do. the up think in

under XXX particularly very, note about pricing in the low. but I market market could I think get your bear so We is It's note the historically think do historically run. still go. are where tenure you'll the tenure low, think historically very actually think longer rates do rallies,

Eric Hagen

where that And since the today? one construction done as have the more portfolio the guys for on portfolio of the anything then MBS sits year, Agency hedge a end MSR you the with

Michael Nierenberg

When the MSR was side, on there when off. some acquired -- We've on MSR Yes. we the hedge that -- agency Caliber, taken there. against the

the So MSR. no there this there's hedge point, against -- at

Operator

Credit comes go Harter question from The from next Douglas Suisse. Please ahead.

Douglas Harter

does Just expense those update include Or the that further would hoping those around that synergies you're comments further clarify -- be the include any on the -- to top actions energies, does synergies? taking? actions of

Baron Silverstein

the It's looked expense We on of businesses. be cost conditions. further at just to those reductions. top the due market further looked we operating synergies. adjustments eventual actions of BAU are going merger both And Yes, at as to synergies specific to

Douglas Harter

guess, per were I where year? those does done So of to when and kind I they last done kind take unit guess time, of compare are obviously, it expect all your you cost reductions and and to how said would production of expense

Baron Silverstein

are costs And us that talked they to costs takes some great able basically towards. Michael be in point our ensure that that well you to was the to materially close at Caliber we as initiatives objectives loans. look and the two to plan the then obviously, context goals, acquisition businesses other we're effectively that those technology to as what And effectively that we just also mousetraps about had saw differences is a operating the mean, basically to vantage costs. reduce today. side, we the take were initiatives for they each different been and between of with mortgage And to really of going I technology are where meet working best lower the we fulfillment believe but of the strategy we've practices our than within our had with able have advantage

Operator

JMP Cranston next Securities. from from Please ahead. comes question The go Trevor

Trevor Cranston

$X you this you're the the billion expecting up non-QM about on that quarter. side, volume to to Question quarterly reach mentioned

appetite billion there availability that As keeping have is that number balance potentially the and to you selling the is for bring sheet? will be grows guys NRG's to going to $X capital NRZ? between parties plus anticipation and quarter, Or that to some per on expected mix some to loans third

Michael Nierenberg

expect capital obviously else. that loans And selling to team structure our anybody of than The Currently, worked close we marketplace. about company very with think into money extremely different company. the about beauty us well. and NRZ NRZ The making mortgage is mortgage makes I be non-QM the the corporate don't is as structure money. making

a grow are year we where multibillion we if business. a as today, dollar to So could origination we this look

of I or a markets XX be we mortgage of everybody else, lot years, have things Jordan, at and fortress whether in the here over it been One securitization XX-plus company, the is in have the we've Baron, that for Charles for NRZ experience years. been

and no NRZ growth expect for with the closely company with I change other our mortgage the very to -- team. than So work

Trevor Cranston

Okay. you commercial any Can most and prepared involved the And space mentioned commercial that in would That's sort helpful. segment in elaborate Got NRZ involved? guys the become you there were the get potentially you the likely of of XXXX. market briefly place be exploring to for what on it. could comments

Michael Nierenberg

have we're some been and looking at more to say And operators. some space, group what -- originators term we investments -- for something of We some would some the won't conduit in come a terrific a strategic. secured at with and in small that have is while. like. exploring commercial look bit be We this to to the with loans redevelopment CMBS we've just discussions would not I now. We're call proven hire quite I little stuff frankly, a somebody there's in

to from are overall business. companies as the having operating today business, NewRez/Caliber about the deal on the franchise. being in MSR overall our a rates owner side we that caliber support in XXs MSR our on think is So big went an we where the that focused with refi where growth to recapture. you An support of example mid-XXs. NewRez, in which side, on the our is Recapture big, That's they're on

that's look space, we as hopeful we probably commercial over growth going be we're there at go And something more strategic that the forward. as next So oriented and we'll this or it's in during more the quarter. to quarter done get something

Operator

next [Operator ahead. Bologna from comes Giuliano Please Point. go Instructions] Compass our question from

Giuliano Bologna

there the the income. correctly put you on there table, a of was perspective that XX. side, XX% one right reducing actually you're it think on increasing that the We should XX-ish the just to slide. want greater on you origination there's I origination down, of at that impact tax want income taxable But about from numbers the obviously I things to about as just touch Slide on look income. make side, sensitivities guys sure goes slightly or the so than have eligible rate amortization Am be that you're on the roughly thinking the that because I just kind pretax out some I of to pretax was

Michael Nierenberg

MSR not assets. if business, obviously, that's correct. you're the operating becomes MSR, I Yes, there's a portion of [indiscernible] the I think in mean, the

yes So the answer to question. your is

Giuliano Bologna

on came good. Then follow-up question that about a That allocation. sounds a earlier capital thinking about up

you're obviously of have think or fund capital plans [indiscernible] I'm $XX some some the growth some off how and dividend? MSRs balance think ran originated allocation you in the dialing just versus the to of you trying to you needs sheet of more billion about You in up assets. MSR the more growth capital the about other up, quarter. And how of

Michael Nierenberg

that past it's the NRZ some over are earnings company on the like the take plenty allocated, position origination pretty we dollar assets. MSRs and of in and/or There's liquidity, to good of and it going from to to if be capital business you acquire we're to want first feel think lot over whether lot side. and it we there's invest With last we calls if capital with mortgage not and sits -- mortgage So $X.X today. side in been on capital billion a a the MSR to the shift today. the about company that of in there, in more I've run of clear capital cash a every the number

So $X.XX to way. life drive an going our not We're extra live that share. a we

As Board decision, about we look frankly. the it's and think really a dividend, quite forward

from to I think going of our the all run rate of perspective. the be Company is

spring we mortgages. business, origination demand really gain the the to to the the months for I happens come to what think or as out see going what it's be interesting happens what of winter is sale on and in meaning

be out little you I think we bit one The to look of as that our drive a help dividend there. forward. clear strategy some peers our will at thing of is go

macro value forward book our because Our in that continue value, we view positioning the over we in as increase to of see until changes. as kind go book market we our of and time

great a dividend group, forward. And it's our it like with as yield, a wherever yield, feel we're dividend belief drive of to value call, price rates we're thing, X% and continue that extremely are that to stock is you discussion evaluate my our of value we'll higher. higher. earnings nothing it drive our our they our I the there's place hopefully I that dividend an X% a we XXs I Whether equity after The board say result as is continue capital, that to still net projections book is, or X% XX% projections this XXX can book dividend So, cheap. should go in hopeful a yield, The on think as but a relates and to at now. we trade

Trevor Cranston

is added receivable. question, loans in segment I'm on a I loan the of kind over a the the resemble just want And moving portfolio be segment loans consumer got should makes consumer sense mortgage quicker correct. edition That you've reporting And you two-part came then the of from shift Genesis, and off how notice make platform? the a a and sense. think dropped just to originate that's assets if assets and the seems I side, Genesis. you other mortgage guys is then there's And sure segment on assuming billion? when loan about of receivables the $X.X that the can to much Genesis perspective you what there kind

Michael Nierenberg

Genesis don't take and stuff, why statement sheet, you I'll side. the the take Nick, So the income balance then

Nicola Santoro

Correct, Giuliano.

business is separate size. segment, shown and the segment So in did given the its the move Genesis consumer we

Michael Nierenberg

the side, the to we're on plate then And in together up as partners. inning. the We're Genesis getting

growth going Cleary, Goldman by opportunities the to $XXX us. the think be Sachs, million-ish next in Keep pretty forward. in $X.X with, be in the We'll Genesis out be probably the corporate were market go I I significant than a we with think, we're our first little on securitization. of We there probably structure the two bit they weeks. acquired going owned are mind, a on different billion. as securitization to side

over to So, time. to business we a industry that and -- building industry. think either bringing the there's forward pretty result, growth home or look more should and for flip creating lot the fix And of we significantly there, as grow products a

Operator

like turn for our question-and-answer more back would There to remarks. no questions to queue. the concludes are conference I in the This Nierenberg any closing session. Michael over

Michael Nierenberg

Stay with -- on quarter. investment Very the a it Thank where look for our on what well, whether be day. team you. great quarter side to this from are the mortgage side, the morning. -- leadership and we the portfolio joining company you next for updating and forward today excited have us Thanks and during

Operator

for you Thank concluded. today's now attending has Conference presentation.

disconnect. now may You