JRVR James River

Kevin Copeland SVP, Finance & CIO
Jonathan Abram Chairman & CEO
Sarah Doran CFO
Robert Myron President, COO & Director
Matthew Carletti JMP Securities
Mark Hughes SunTrust Robinson Humphrey
Ronald Bobman Capital Returns Management
Sean Reitenbach KBW
Randolph Binner B. Riley FBR
Call transcript
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Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the James River Group Q2 2020 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions]. I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Mr. Kevin Copeland, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

Kevin Copeland

Tiffany. you, Thank and Quarter everyone, the River James Good Earnings welcome Conference Second XXXX Call. Group morning, to

During the and call, statements we results and will be making cause may on subject various actual beliefs, uncertainties, are which are differ forward-looking current intentions, that expectations materially. assumptions to to risks based statements. These

make Exchange Chief we and update Commission. do not recent over will forward-looking XX-Qs Factors with statements. now such call Chairman forward-looking earnings release Abram, yesterday's Executive other to of duty discussion please section a Officer We filings to the in our and Securities Adam uncertainties, Form see the the statements turn of Risk Form the and reports undertake James and For risks any I cautionary and Group. of most language XX-K, regarding and any River

Jonathan Abram

Financial Thank and things everyone, may Doran, I'm both A -- here would good perspective. answering our will this you morning conference And our as Operating welcome is Officer. to Chief and and much, Sarah call. very all second you and quarter President and questions joined I Officer; morning, X by few worth seem enjoy Chief pointing a and out way, we'll from Bob that and usual of Myron, comments, of Kevin, Sarah us our number mentioning have any then have. our my

XX%. returns a are of combined our First, strong. reporting We're ratio group

middle including week. this our quarter XX.X% IPO our last in a tangible dividends, XX.X% has equity By our return, calculation, through of the XXXX IPO rate return Our in months. of from internal the December XX% investor of on was and for an X enjoyed

quarter. grew tangible XX.X% share during per Our value the book

are excellent. Our prospects, I think,

months. premiums by Our E&S quarter X and for XX% XX% grew the for gross the segment written

year. of in submissions third first June. submissions XX this E&S the XX% grew during in half Our in E&S the XXXX continues had submission count in-force We had flow E&S quarter. XX XX% greater in from divisions early past the June of policy increased by trend of a our Core to increase and the

While I think premiums have important. year-to-date, divisions low within we dramatically, the $XX,XXX remain are our of mix X Average And grown. level. we're E&S changing growing, and XX not that's in

For June that quarter in quarter, a achieved In rate we increase XX% the increase policies. recent first on the The XXth of in this was rate most quarter a rate reported policies. just In quarter, increases Core team accelerating. ended XX, renewal increases is consecutive pace which renewal E&S had we E&S. the on our XX%

we book. to and The for ratio for second premiums fronting year. about our It's And XX.X% $X quarter that segment the combined signed first XX.X% Admitted year, reported expect segment Turning has Admitted of our Specialty X half new million months the of Specialty million. $XXX well. the annual first will performing and deals generate approximately annual the during of the fees of very of a

So that the a year. of earn steady will on we're highly book progress in over diversified programs fee making next building income-producing

and a balance that pay is attention all lot our the the we of One of strength quarter-over-quarter. I sheet that balance of sheet, increasing is things to strength our believe

is Core XX and for through Surplus LAE XXXX years, Excess in and loss Lines, XXXX, Our ratio the XX.X%.

we means closed the claims stopped has canceled and matter of in at We Rasier at the were rates our account current better than in large I of quarter, that are the at and some proceeding commercial with account approximately that recent we've know that a outstanding that's more the account. runoff the and year additional attention well. currently than We claims writing associated closed time our of at quarters, that an always booking business XX% during previous writing the this the our year is any XX.X%. we're gotten in of that past, time any XX%

and what a down years in rates, claims E&S runoff in frequency our segment. to quarter The expect a at X ago to combined being to complete general Claims take cost we're in is in powerful the really benign, the pace and are will environment of expectations. combination. that, in compared our continue to we're Admitted resolved with is Specialty our year claims the seeing it XX.X% XX.X% second book within down We X is relatively and pleased book, with but the

business We to book COVID And on of E&S had on as call, Workers' claims. Compensation our in claim. unit had us against X last approximately talked our this Admitted write Specialty COVID E&S for has we net In and claims, we of policy COVID-XX segment. about liability individual $XXX that from XX was which under risk Admitted classes in Specialty do as obligation have the date, no in fronting reported and we claims of unit. structure received our language one segment. claims business a compensable segment, the our And write Workers' our policies COVID-XX or our well compensable, our we've reinsurance as Compensation insulate program We

However, they're and the our retentions first of low. recurrence. $X And between million XX% XX% are per

And to is average the claim. per maximum less COVID-XX our to our few to had so $XXX,XXX from just $XX,XXX currently net COVID is be per To claims we've net material liability total than liabilities us. expect we the claim. date, don't for And incurred $XXX,XXX

larger, in our it suffers Bermuda profitable book book is today today. reinsurance relatively of write we book casualty from much but from amounts good The development the with overwhelmed E&S underwriting to small the overwhelmingly lack segment write Our a there we years smaller of adverse profitability, scale, margins. overall in was a contributes prior when

because Consequently, underwriting in less prior process we to the segments. reinsurance unit losses capital primary allocated outsized cause opportunity in the year current development segments in in However, reinsurance available of there. have to than our our movements primary year our can

up leading and our plan think And first of I forward, is We're become our the on is a at We over our increasing months. from and expect of interest. the think time, so unemployment, pricing industry recognize, the year as market business shaping expanding still is margin. business. the admitted to slowdown to a losses the to business, stick margin the continue. to low prevailing seeming business to -- markets to rates XX write reaction to in continue see a slow understand classes signs fee focused of expect at produce disconnect market between year plan to same the the Looking momentum prior general more retreat our for economic contributor as many to and larger next definitely our we E&S indicators, prices increasing expanding We the in of fees material of business is our we half we and example, those underwriting don't

add quarter that, turn And on to Sarah half to the if her the reflections Sarah? I could of first and year. the so with

Sarah Doran

Adam. Thanks,

the night, quarter Let XX%. noted. of for average first per year, and of me operating is highlight year a first annualized $X.XX share a few net first Adam has as earnings quarter. of adjusted operating and the we the of financial very It strong equity tangible was reported half the half on points the quarter Last from return

into right investments. jump me Let

March recovered balance cash meaningfully with and portfolio restricted return since total Our our for X.X% private of a the investments. excluding XX has quarter,

portfolio unrealized by gains secured $XX.X of offset million, losses the investment loan of portfolio portfolio. while had million sale bank had million maturity bank the unrealized gains fixed of of $XX.X incurred realized of senior approximately Our $X.X XX% on loan partially our

rally the in made as to loans April, we decision tamp exposure our in As look volatility. asset we this mentioned class bank to reduce into our selling we the to meaningfully down by

as throughout be year. the current expect we environment, quarter investment Given levels similar this income the low-yield to net at

Moving on investments. from

low year of immersions first quarter, largely despite line accident ratio posted year increases, of loss we XX.X% of ratio and reduced This a powerful quarter rate frequency. the loss in with meaningfully and loss claims XX.X%, this

Adam to Core multiple the this E&S losses approximately years accelerated benefited written have rate and to for E&S XX% now net reserves. remained close half of of premiums up we As quarter, for the benign Core company's and quarters, XX% X again our highlighted, makes have renewal net reported this quarter. over from increases

but of account estimate and year, our open runoff to years at $X.X little represented within review account reported X% claims than total the expectations. the up quarter the approximately our claims Of claims. not these largest to received At block our supports of was ongoing the a additional end claims approximately open of of continues reserves claims, At did of the we've net mentioned, claims, this reported of related formerly put fourth X% of what over that less to perform account. exclusions million end represented quarter given account at all for group-wide indemnity point, this for of of that quarter. our the reported first all COVID Adam half XXXX, for business. of end, I As policies years for had an the you and we bit of of the total The $XXX COVID-related billion runoff loss the

favorable E&S, a million write. development business, of adverse business. about general liability from had longer we much We commercial E&S our in to development we treaties quarter, no This had Core of The of development and $X.X was in million book. casualty $X reinsurance from our of related most few came which concentrated auto which

individual our Workers' We of book. million risk reserve from Compensation development also had $X favorable

a XX.X% to but thoughts. this ratio identical expenses. As decreased any the And reminder, in internal quarter of processes in The our are first include expectations developments each quarter, from not least, quarter planning don't of we reserving our this year. and XX.X% expense last

part We had first to Adam. of low where that in and full of as will expense to we for have areas gain an improvement the hand onetime income, our overstaffed. increasing reversal be I'll personnel quarter the expenses that, expect in quarter the a the All expenses. was to impact included accrual, year were reduced working it we that continue Also quarter. and during that, in fee XXs, With back from been an the which the said, ratio efficiency reduce of lowering

Jonathan Abram

thinking we're feat more in our thinking employees us everybody children and with it, about right nonetheless, right And now, handling of claims take while more And Sarah. who's terrific we're more all we're who would and get shout the your questions, job. little have I we might, to really of since just employees James the doing have aware working River to for working a on premium, arrangements school America colleagues which working now. all to underwriting, remarkable all a strengths home and for policies, that and are around you, out, it remotely before and but been fortunately, to, March do it's I doing and calls they we're more like remote eager a them, who about Thank if generating

at our far of tested only As X approximately for XXX-plus XXX or had employees positive our last report, COVID.

proud we're work for for mindful too. grateful team and forth we're very of all everybody's that, that's our going And of colleagues. and So of thankful health very the

to So might that who be I wanted to anybody listening. Thank you. say

can up open you let's us? for So help questions. Operator,


[Operator Instructions].

line JMP comes Matt of Carletti the first Your from with question Securities.

Matthew Carletti

about with of or ratio of regard the towards historical XX% book take the develop before a bit Can more might Core Adam, in right timing your and kind bring historically, and about -- how wait you loss think of color a more business a typically things down running level? a if you us that long you're you kind guys mentioned kind years are ratio those comments conservatively kind you -- today. of E&S a your give of to it to look -- then how you that at is little take way, where going bit or opening how picking the loss let

Jonathan Abram

look it. victory reserves quarter, culture we're We honestly, at our careful -- not and is early. to that about just I every our It's declare

pass, down. time to arise so it's at it's and facts overall that circumstances, the but cause amount view, what least to a with of about bring not And specific conservative that it might a us has

also waiting on depends line -- on it we're generally, -- the depending business. and of that So on

I as from our conservative and But play we is one don't to say bit balance that where in. approach So sheet be give think careful say a strength we later is of face in a And the you position to date. mentioned, like to put to to say being thing I I ourselves in to want try And strength. a I that believe not weakness, a want -- would would building I we're that, that to that's position today. quite I I is enjoy but

Matthew Carletti

saw a driven be lot comment companies could then of is of noticed reduced the book, by as the what couple there? And if current in in. others. we're economy auto of situation and of with book frequencies, just curious Great. claim -- you as a But on you just the runoff is the a the what your quarter saw otherwise, situation One lot little well terms going book, commercial what's the kind core on -- have across other I'd both you of bit kind on -- in respect to helping the in

Jonathan Abram

early definitely we're pace faster quarter, And and not auto quarter. that there are in mentioned that closed we think and we want declare closed again, XX% things don't victory follows on recent claims think the XX% that I during -- the two I going book most of I that simultaneously. I discontinued in having outstanding the but we expected, first the there. Well, commercial had is than to closed were

think the So as I and result our In we I about know of when that a takeout, Core of rates at and market that withdrawal suppressed and runoff E&S years XX-plus decline Admitted our parts companies E&S a things slowing activity in in of claims. of are and anticipating And because for home are inadequate happening all yet market. pricing from of business -- Specialty activity claims is because the of people X-year X- leaving in at that restaurants of all and and that general, are percent clearly market are frequency and still having we're of E&S E&S to writer book, rising time a are capacity more admitted slowing of large lack much mentioned, in book. many, the of kind both by is largest the the the the those book that many the

say and rates high, I to depressed increasing holding conservative having we're very positions. not claims, we're we're but don't reserve high. overly So yet, want holding

it's right So I are positive very blowing think it's us a one for favor. in winds and The our a vortex, now.

Matthew Carletti

development the of lines last correctly, what's those that One that handful are adverse there where -- a and of the base on ago. kind guys segment. the And frame have Sure. hoping in related that just of small to you've few numbers largely I terms was we've out development Kind maturing of to you question question? go has a left of the of a years ongoing older might to lines business of? you only in while had gotten be there? recall really I able casualty kind the reserve of the of have million, is exited how of we the we but If kind in Kind much more accident

Jonathan Abram

Re -- from right. here. going And Casualty make in that, -- to I'm to that's... the policies look, just you're segment, I Well, But in jump sure exactly you're ask general, to these These are long Sarah ago. wanted talking talking about if you're

Matthew Carletti


Jonathan Abram

going. you're where that's Yes,

long ago from later are and Okay. policies These risings.

they And a bit as little surprise. so up they come of are a --

Casualty book very But a very shrunk it's we're leadership quota that a Re. have small there. underwritten E&S share and also It's writing the profitable book. it's book there, by well in We our

of do, year's look reinsurance historically, is say over -- net shareholders. And claim And the the results. an that for operation had Bermuda generated lot would that premium income where we premium for a see has we relatively worth at had years, But other so can our I trailing older we income a off. a more lot we year I overwhelm if And -- and small from overall, we about thing the arrangement. entire year current our of a carefully our very

Sarah Doran

referencing that Adam overall that's kind of structure over And business has kind the attributed is obvious not Casualty added of of to be benefits time. the operations income underwriting our specifically of the Reinsurance Right. to

Just kind in years’ so that to about of of income, thinking worth speak. additional

Adam year that said, thing development write. a we was, is longer this business -- fair as no treaties other The I'd amount adverse of the that due to add

years. that business as for of in was Some has later be it been to looks profitable continued us and that's profitable well

there. X we're is parts there I decent of no of that the are definitely, So a it longer think stuff part on. story But

to is was Adam smaller book difficult than So said, here is years as that it two really, manage much ago. the it theme is a

the that the you're So of is some of what movement numbers. in seeing

stable years. are We we that of last the pretty at the X writings amount that we've that over have there had for and in in in business --

to allocated capital in primary we've said comments, more businesses, Adam given As just our his the opening there. opportunity our

pretty we've was to So are I of regard we those with for that writings, level year, been think where where stable the last the now, segments. overall


comes from SunTrust. with question next of Your Hughes Mark line the

Mark Hughes

million Specialty $XXX XQ business is that Admitted, the comp? did the in in you show described as Of on up of new that any or

Jonathan Abram

It's comp. almost on the all

Mark Hughes

losses at quarter. current -- XX% right elevated? -- is go-forward? quarter, loss rate is Specialty XX% The last accident Okay. on the Admitted in the year Or Were a this run this that those quarter

Sarah Doran

the run there. where big that That's the we Mark, run Comp now. that for Workers' sorry, we part right is are Obviously, -- rate a right book write of

Jonathan Abram

And expense -- please then go rate the ahead.

Robert Myron

It's Mark. Yes, Bob Myron.

moved it's -- to Specialty that business for mentioning X. Compensation, on risk that Admitted January Workers' our from with XX% XX% Just business, Workers' quota for worth to individual the share Compensation we respect

getting As relative -- -- we to, booking overhead our to costs that. affect and like a line in because for the and paid have ratio we elevated for claims result and XXXX XXX% we net like the loss say, of number right, there, include and of of we're commission that terms we're handling that But ceding that is business. UA, the that

more having as we're back -- the ceding expense getting we're then but up, reduction to went commission a ratio loss through ratio. the come So

and has why bit little it seems reason technical high. for a So that loss of increased there's why a pick

Mark Hughes

be was business, assume that your ratio that to near then for least What of the Sarah. normal the the some expense this quarter. at point, low that And ratio should you included reversal I expense mentioned, term? in

Sarah Doran

question. a quarter, Yes. other Yes. we had asking And that the Thank quarter, side. for And delta is that Mark. this last the on you delta big

So for the I ratio the to I'm think normalized in about normalized what low thinking is expense that mid-XXs. business -- a as

Mark Hughes

segment, of -- couple the been low premium the the XXs, last XX% in in of quarters. has E&S ratio then kind And ceded the

a relative property if ceded going think And you've little more I mix Excess ratio should segment? understand that overall to of and in now the then, cede I what like Excess properly, a it more. had you What's where growth look premium bit forward? the

Sarah Doran


I think really -- be admit, business done that well great and that Excess quarters. is many lumpy. opportunity it's book going -- not really I will a admit We've and to seen the by really, to grow but for have Casualty design,

This within Core quarters. that that the quarter, in the grew that most E&S, it's was and book other been way

a to situational. little bit although So is of take that's bit And the XX% now, that, that and sits think year, overall causing little I by for least significantly the I as that's again, don't of reason Core in to of front at the going episodic. have book. to the end it a of more quarter, the E&S We're book, right change delta, us. advantage than that's a say that going that would

think well. ratio in as ceded would quarter that, the where first that would was pretty be stable. That's I about it So

Mark Hughes

XXs? Low

Sarah Doran

XXs, Yes, of yes. early low, right. That's kind

Mark Hughes

you as your the with, kind Casualty now the point the back overall which is we What situation moving going helped parts, for, out helps think next say, the What profitability of taxes? taxes into should is by of a the half, year? think, as I Re, about restrain tax number

Sarah Doran

go the a Well, assumptions into tax lot rate. obviously of

as for about being a year. the think in from it teens this low perspective I practical

-- XX% bit the So different quarter. way, it said it for was a

little of I being than bit balance higher think that year. a the for that the

Mark Hughes

growth would XQ. Right. XQ, into When that in you trend the we in think early -- about strong submissions mentioned the submission continue

I a into June. with quarter the in would got little tougher bit I as early think we the that been as business some have building strength understand

these -- of I XX% the we kind projections in parts going year. were Hard rough QX? in lot in might XX% and QX How dynamics, Any give thoughts think give all do just last of growth comping moving your picture remember you growth around growth, second I parts. know XQ? way, don't early of you against these into have late in quarter moving also growth, I that the a to about but think you properly

Jonathan Abram


of third that think the the days quarter I that the course, early and feeling And we're right we've in first growth now, second experienced continues quarter. it's early. into

-- adding in Specialty Admitted. plus, the So we're

efficiency. the of who half is over commend -- by IT part efficiently throughput speed of at the is faster. look our on working remote, them time, are income technologies really the of growth of not But of by policies our to $XXX rate effort we threatened I of that fee to we at reason the this force more are with yet insurance that way, the and the year we're pricing same also introducing have I and we to continue our and I slowly got applications its side in quote the it and have thing first referred begin who that business. And us it's think indeed, But seeing business, so half a our to flow throughput over hard. to only associated the And million of haven't E&S continue I we opportunities, filter to mentioned by the see way to year. good the steady, underwriters the another in is we'll can improvements this team into some so is supported, buildup but second see in the and in superb time, started our a think feeling new for the more events. One not applications of the employees

I And technology you and out I new in group underwriting XX% introduced rolled our be unit, I'll throughput if think it by technology out. rolled a allow is is group. higher within of business being or about our supported within because being here. that's X, me to by But divisions a range there than ago E&S that IT example, think point Similar For the small little other our year space. a was our

So is becoming sign continues. strength don't decreasing some see any better the seeing applications and got We're efficient. more that signs we're the more we've rate. where I rate that

what feel just And half be, good here the saying it predicting will sit think I of very I'm as without so I does. about whole And second our year, today. I team the


Your next question the Binner Riley. with B. Randy of comes from line

Randolph Binner

I that in profitable. guess observation it's growing coming overall, your is lot have the I increasingly -- down so the a the but top is E&S, and it's business line, Core

So decreasing your basis. a a is quite leverage on operating bit forward

with And of to Or do fill kind so that? higher of about be you that return? a I you'd Can a that leverage guess, return you thought there think operating level up perhaps can how capital underwriting?

Sarah Doran

and I'm in. first, colleagues to that have take happy I'll jump my

as We a and are much that's of and have, we across doing good writing everything especially coming and that businesses we the Core can this to in lot. profitable take opportunity advantage E&S transom that great

So that goal. #X is our

good we we're runway. in as a possible, returning great capital. of as front think in be we I enough like judicious do a opportunities, known to to don't Randy, to we've we for -- we opportunity I certainly, much and I capital we'll enough have now, work that think right known And us us of got to if do it. us if trying know -- in you've it that But a seems you've it have think while, put more than

Randolph Binner


of insurance been looks kind a you've was it's the is then there's all going we truly have level, ruin interest I a and the market in party. the all firm of but bit maybe reasons question the early, the out. hard high from other market came the environment of to capital But I or little it's was because it's for so full good and perspective since this few was, which -- -- or low a laid that starts world kind agree The where philosophical issue a rates pricing that market, the hard thought whatever into

we But market different Why so And is, firmer we're everything Because to question is be about the a your as in here. sustainably feel this yes, feeling curious, saying, my of why it. environment fall environment? it hard different? pricing to seem seeing comments current a out there's I'm start me this is I to relates think

Jonathan Abram

country of admitted resetting is largest E&S have. you good business, rate Randy, if student that first you to if analysis we read I'd their with the continuing some are very we've And large in opportunities retrenching are thinking XX are piece market writings begin what attending us. row And and discourage of you their and market is E&S or up of E&S writes very then capital is is sometimes classic history, market. bring the this had the positions the the books they new And problems right write. of other about of And about now like they're then a terms doing I opening increases. in because examination quarters to this to and history players restricting a that that that for large which The in continuing. that is

-- all I prudent market this on year X% to that's I pressure more we a can business and we we're capital can underpriced a started seeing believe environment deploy so XX% XX.X% And return XX we tangible capital then make being deploy legs. that And ourselves in of quarter. we're for especially coming, encouraged coming, capital, think so future. our grow been when we am so what I use while have and And a And recognized all losses prior doing reported COVID an that this quarter, I to for the think that, good -- think, interest those when year on and into equity, of has are the prior the coming. yet. continuing of tangible about don't reasons, equity, low that's XX% the reserving And there's months grow. see rate to we're And we're return when increases. about as a we've see interest claims I this are rate think claims rate

So every our there's your go -- into those point this of that all absolutely I analysis the the It's concede mind. just basis factual is question. think that our are for I strong things situation today. a

Randolph Binner

it's No, quick And clarification. good. just one

lower You mean rates pressure Did there's claims. rate said low on... interest from interest you

Jonathan Abram

that rates to interest be about pricing make or risk possible argument interest cover long a the industry that markets pursue That's to that income. its means industry no be with tail not to have underprice diligent this could that and for a There's themselves and think might they themselves has could they very strategy don't that today. Low -- today. tempted they


question of next Reitenbach comes Sean the line KBW. Your with from

Sean Reitenbach

had of premium how growing of that pandemic was on just 'XX? a kind for decelerated base getting modeling of was growth thinking a I of of the about this kind was growth the of And get just to and it kind E&S growth, another of We due on much is obviously, trying quarter. growing another going just have strong much guys it top versus you're XX% that feel XQ question -- of? to you forward. of how kind Core last the How that sense a much

Sarah Doran

Do you want that? to take

Jonathan Abram

-- and sorry. sure not exactly I be I'm me, that it I'm understood may

Sean Reitenbach

I rephrase Sorry. it. can

it in XQ pressure you the growth is XX% lot this much has a versus been had from quarters? year the pandemic decelerated premium of base in which in XX% XQ guys how than just 'XX. past prior is So bigger XQ, XX% that And 'XX,

Jonathan Abram

You mean larger a comp? we have

Sarah Doran


Jonathan Abram


Sean Reitenbach


Jonathan Abram

do to want that? You

Sarah Doran

be a me, kind just base, where We've Adam most is That's the think think, when comparison going that look premium have quarter went -- growth X years business Look, through, that to $XX,XXX what's the we policy tough is, the E&S numbers we've force around important growth. really fact as it, this of excuse It's size we at here XX% and you growth I important that great to point. the in a have we've account over of Core had premium large size. I last that and the doubled Yes. quarter. stuck kind

first of have kind little part just -- answer on the bit Sean. it, of I question would not directly We and more the a

along in this to that growth This of seeing. our growth just is pretty you... don't know a I'm very COVID, wouldn't we're see necessarily due number line. I that slowdown the goes a bigger We the have seen percentage outsized kind the to strong hit PIF if not that. growth have regular top number. -- expected that is just gives to with I happy in

Sean Reitenbach

Great. also, Yes. strategy then interest And about That's rates? on the you pressured helpful. thinking an investment how update you're just can give with

Sarah Doran

Yes. Great question.

loan table, on just of the I because quarter And the out did, remove has call we things some so think -- this that portion we bank sold wanted and of we is gone talked there. through which take had that market we we of volatility a one off of much our portfolio recovered about last to to substantially. that

where our in underwriting we these are things. I to would the a can would really our of from overall. right business. do the So on But some doing to I as would change much again, with sits everything days and is we and or us now of focus say that expect into I that we not no investment opportunity it that's great overall, one's there. say investment strategy on because we're or NII our that had opportunities very focus our front really that the sector looking in underwriting where our part happy

bank some table very are, think. that we where loans useful most we'll for of we part least in part the stay for at volatility off I been to taking the But the has it. think us,


Instructions]. [Operator

with of from Bobman comes the Returns. Ron question Capital next Your line

Ronald Bobman

Can you hear me?

Jonathan Abram

we Ron. Yes, can,

Ronald Bobman

change to any secondarily, you values? question. the And Good voice, second maybe that then change are first by in hear Bob's. in especially X everyone's was claims line. maybe And address the question -- Any then you settlement retention seeing can questions. had Great. I

Jonathan Abram


So some Bob answer. may Workers' there are to our spoken that But in written this prior changes have conference in both a retention in made we've Comp. retention an reference -- and we We've individual reduced in our net reduced earlier calls. about

per knew not it's decision, a of quarter -- -- pricing -- individual a history lot. that So very the smaller have write. client difficulty example, the make position, was it. difference Excess And example, overall the I've of account that where but a which an were we either came to a a was will couple was sign market. good. it's having on one on it or it's XX% retention positions last underwriting we very, all we is a huge we've occasionally during They a claim, the for very Workers' or filling or division, taken but small Casualty We in to opportunistically The -- of a going XX%, material, we good, portion the larger XX%. other accounts that hard we not But of X the there. for particular is Comp we've, that our that an XX% in where Excess of we a out program Casualty account mentioned customer -- The keep risk liked felt us have where premium business,

always to been reviewing partners occasionally we larger in and take have time constantly that our a for good time. had that. on and so at mindful place We reinsurance us in have to that And who long arrangements with open long stepped lines are we long, long, pricing we've for review We're a retentions.

we everybody long that sure fairly period make is to a across of time. So treated want

do Bob, to hope So your that something? answers you I want add question.

Robert Myron

Yes. Ron, may you about policy talk good or retention been have... you to retentions. And also have Those to asking renewal again.

Ronald Bobman

Candidly, I the more other was, one. info appreciate providing but on I Adam's

Robert Myron

XXs. is in pretty really And by business, the we've best it's count. Core it in It seen, it stays E&S in this at the -- Yes. low look and been to our been business, The maybe have way we consistent. has --

in about been It significant in level, at has it retention that seen haven't policy in just where we've business. we and for this So was that really year every been QX. change that's a right

I So bit on of think a change more qualitative there. value, And no then significant little a answer. to the just want claim I average give

more counsel a they criminal-related a pretty seen something I might otherwise plaintiffs paid that's our matters. the willingness a there's to have ability and light to a maybe is while X on been court. as across -- think pretty settled environment are would there first a for be really and plan and pandemic, situation of is and of -- it's things. of year. that and get matters and that, civil to that X claims In definitely focusing I We've link take do them and great. whereby not are months the businesses, been a economic definitely on benign their closed going the reopen, think in claims to -- activity there as emergence, been be were incurred the previously lot and/or structuring Well, courts loss

faster of we've to our there opportunity So claims has advantage been values, might get good been settled be at and lower average business that. a what really across taking

is to claims happened opportunities emergence might been down, new have quickly incurred see good frequency that settled modest, and to and of So loss we're paid dollars have before. mediated just get overall not and otherwise continuing things

Jonathan Abram

these Yes. Ron, The to of add is thing at I'd we is the want only to us settle that value that, claims. it to important fair that

our insurance. to business protect in we're So

-- to and for taking each it view the advantage to want a way courts or anything of fair to we the work is so we not And else in come our a claimant in claim value we be would that value claim. that to and settle attend unemployment for the claim, I to fair way closed hard or that fair interpreted any of were


line of question Mark comes Hughes next your And the with from SunTrust.

Mark Hughes

way, your the think question typically It million me about risk still $X -- did that retention. think interpreted I retention per is I same account. or per is which Adam, make

I to similar general a base something the at time to that it? think have one broadly and retention? for public the you a Is not do to public applied. And increased sure have least had retention competitors increasing assumption. this you who I'm do do million, their the Is it? capital $X of how that's your matter, considered as profitability well, just as policy

Jonathan Abram

a Well, our should that market know, million. allow now. Core And us is buying we only a right million part overwhelming base good capital to is would the have though, The E&S book one retentions. of increase

book part limits the smaller policy of So in excess excess it's buying that's a of $X million. --

our of customer for of million the buying book, So our . for part many what a a classes, is large is million

-- goes that average to you the our level. back And size this fact account $XX,XXX is that in so premium

taking in So example, Casualty, are want we're about to by places retention where Excess we those see the market opportunities right we our property, property, more But have as doing this for take now, taking we're in share what we not very pretty And Casualty. know. cautious at could profitable up. -- change one market. policies in to example, where one a have be we occasionally, taken at or looking The going But treaty right is there look for more you we're force more excess Excess structure you that in we and now. our and look would


to queue. Mr. time, over [Operator showing at the this I Abram. now like in would questions back turn Instructions]. I And further conference no to am

Jonathan Abram

analyst the of speaking the forward well, Well, we Thanks friends And quarter, thank community, shareholders, thanks to the stays employees interested in and hope that end look a before. I to participants, to if our you next you, everybody all parties. at lot. operator, and our other and not


a you conference. day. your have this Ladies participation, wonderful Thank for concludes and today's and gentlemen,