RDN Radian

John Damian Senior Vice President of Investor Relation
Rick Thornberry Chief Executive Officer
Frank Hall Chief Financial Officer
Derek Brummer President of Radian Mortgage
Douglas Harter Credit Suisse
Randy Binner B. Riley
Mark DeVries Barclay
Jack Micenko SIG
Bose George KBW.
Mihir Bhatia Bank of America
Phil Stefano Deutsche Bank
Call transcript
Due to licensing restrictions, you must log in to view earnings call transcripts.

Welcome to Radian's Third Quarter 2020 Earnings Call. My name is Dani. [ph] I'll be your operator for today's call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode, later we will conduct a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. the Investor to Relation. turn Vice Damian, now of President will call John over Senior I Mr. Damian, may you begin.

John Damian

Thank you, call. quarter XXXX and welcome to Radian's third conference

the includes evening today's pretax release, was our the discussed website press which during This Radian's call measures, of results Our operating press which release be contains Investor section adjusted issued non-GAAP income, is and for yesterday at posted certain adjusted on share, measures and per in to real adjusted including financial to income equity quarter operating section return complete these and exhibits G adjusted operating of GAAP net investors the and of A EBITDA. F diluted on press release found estate website. net our reconciliation and may description will be the

have the Officer. of the the would or our the please any this non-GAAP environment, of hand is EBITDA Derek Radian In issues for This Due technical estate Q&A EBITDA Hall, dividing also estate adjusted may calculate sound current related and Officer; for all which portion adjusted afternoon, President ask Chief to the remote. that are call. that real Radian's Also I morning speakers will Mortgage. during Brummer, you on estate from included Frank quality Financial of revenue real real a excuse call margin, total Rick measure, we Thornberry, by hear Chief segment. Executive you GAAP addition, by we arise

are and may estimates, results projections differ will Before on expectations, are forward-looking assumptions materially. statements you actual comments that statements. based we that made during begin, I include cause subject this uncertainties call like would to remind risks to current which to and These

reports risk forward-looking quarter quarterly for also these updated included These SEC. the subsequent For our factors filed in as XXXX are release risks, statements in report the our and please of regarding XX-Q available the on review a in second XXXX with our XX-K our the on discussion Form earnings included and statements website. cautionary of Form

turn call to to I the over like Rick. Now would

Rick Thornberry

Thank us for joining Thank John, and and your good morning. in you, for you Radian. interest all today

were economy, team improvement results of housing positive environment, continued strength encouraged and economic the businesses pandemic of the to market, our our in well strong by with during proud are quarterly default time. again by our signs the and portfolio. however, overall this Our within impacted say trends I unprecedented am to operate the that momentum continued we

new in of our decline of default real in decline new million. estate XXXX our mortgage few our volume income diluted of the income results per a provide segment reported diluted $X.XX of $XX new $XX me XX% a year-over-year XX.X% We share. number of primary quarter-over-quarter billion. net share or wrote a of to XX% record $XXX in rate second financial per and million the to quarter grew Book highlights value and per to from saw the for Let insurance of We quarter. adjusted $X.XX. $XX.XX share business defaults We Revenues third operating increased X.X%. net

risk reinsurance in Turning profile risk of strengthened $XXX couple in insurance-linked to to mortgage of fourth which of resulting million October. our for XX% enhanced distribution. and being our capital notes, transactions a our highlights efficiency our form executed some subject risk We further for force

XX,XXX we October to XX. total October us in terms in I cures the in in at persist, an ending report In pleased decline defaults and while the to defaults number default trends of continues number saw reported net decline X% resulting of outstanding that a am of to of increase of new defaults economic uncertainty with

broader mortgage the estate Moving market. now to real

of the loan mortgage volume refinance COVID-XX. our earnings new the country. the continued the index XX the Positive housing the from slowdown economic strain housing representing the insurance demand supply has increase third strong growth home fourth rates U.S. combined strong in based business with months, of consecutive from demand month existing quarter's on interest price an our a market X% drove across in The lead third in prices of of own to month rebound an and following some sales increasing increased increase in the continued primary last prior volume the call been data latest quarter we from and last home over the September with limited momentum X% purchase purchase loan During record volume the home low quarter. there's the in had to helped which relatively noted due Radian market

is high quality the it volume year worth did in drive grew lower, also billion that high approximately another that year-over-year note fifth the quarter-over-quarter purchase monthly important and It's persistency insurance quarter premium grew year-over-year. our of X% and While force refinances $XXX from X% insurance with to monthly our the coming volume portfolio of XX% we loans. the nearly noting XX% our of in NIW record, September set during

purchase increase quarterly billion purchase record set loan loan the our wrote quarter in the from the in last business represented quarter previous of new we fact, year. third In $XX of a XX%

of quarter, quarter of fourth significant in into new write Given heading and now current environment, businesses, we $XX our $XX strong the million XXXX third to to estate during $XXX the of the for quarter commitment quarter the reported XXXX. second a than from NIW we million In expect segment business third billion. $XX more MI the revenues pipeline XXXX of compared and the real million

strong large title We business of a continue pipeline sales growth see customers. our to in with

However, businesses is segment result we loss see increase the to appraisal our in the well-positioned title our COVID-XX driven we a lead data, as business growth participate growing are and of traditional revenues, Strategically we orders businesses. real staffing our quarter, analytics environment. as digital market and technology transformation. open and growing have believe the and investment demand real we up mentioned XXX% and REO our an experience for of estate where across are year-over-year estate slowdowns market's Despite the operating our continued result technology for experiencing in we last I solutions, in which

we capital position, there level provide $X.X strong Radian are our well With leverage in position. well our of a capital believe position position, through capital path. of overall including liquidity and uncertainty positioned, details we Group, a billion recovery and economic prepared to cycle. environment to PMIERs will at continues this on PMIERs be navigate available our to Frank strong the more Turning the

capital process, our aggregate, ability writing mortgage markets to of us the attractive business cycle. continue manage to distribute when our risk combined to management As and part capital has we quality insurance the our of position and reinsurance with continue levels effectively of high monitor economically The overall strength through our access capital and significant to enabled company.

capital in level said loan past, our to risk a achieve deploy the for remain we and generate shareholders at in business adjusted we've As value believe focused we on returns mid-teens. our the discipline economic targeted will the customer our our that management leveraging risk on and strong most

Now I over call would of financial like to details turn for our to the position. Frank

regulatory provide and I remarks update. will Frank's a legislative Following

Frank Hall

$X.XX the our third XXXX. the diluted share per per million net turn to in diluted share adjusted of income operating of second XXXX afternoon we quarter our of loss or net quarter income diluted XXXX revenue. reported good and in operating evening, the the net was quarter compared Rick, now financial XXXX. net the loss diluted per $XXX.X of of income in key net XXXX second per share $X.XX $X.XX last Adjusted issued in compared for you of share of the share of quarter income and operating third as $X.XX GAAP share of quarter $X.XX recap as $X.XX results third and quarter in third XXXX of per of per net to the to a diluted I'll To everyone. drivers Thank adjusted diluted of

written our of $XX.X $XX earlier, Rick during third to $XX.X XXXX. quarter quarter billion As the mentioned compared quarter and billion was in the insurance last billion new

new for in of is and new quarter quarter, for and down of policies XX% of XX% our quarter refinances written an $XXX.X XXXX other new quarter the to as of growth XXXX flow third to insurance third premium significantly insurance the recurring which business quarter total borrower highest the was increased that In basis. XXXX were third billion of XX% of in-force paid Direct new the of increase were year. written our for Our written compared XX% level Primary year-over-year XXXX of the second on our XX% our in of this a prior a new Primary were and volume X%. quarter only written year quarter third quarter second premium business. third of quarter for and quarterly second to monthly XX% for insurance end insurance new of the the insurance of to the third from approximately compared XXXX for XX% the XX% force XXXX single policies quarter $XXX.X also billion with at total, policies ago, quarter. the means insurance

quarter the elevated monitoring cancellations additional single the billion of and due on-going experienced and premium reconciliation an $X.X of as represented in cancellations to In rate policy increase These insurance current third interest low policy addition to during environment, cancellations servicer also approximately the we part process. our force.

XX.X% in from decreased quarter the rate quarter persistency XXXX. XX.X% XX.X% third prior of of XX-month Our the and in

the was this rate is a quarterly have quarterly second been quarter quarter, was decline year. in from level refinance been small of approximately earlier quarter of third by reported and the second of given The rate and of from XX% low persistency XXXX. persistency driven Our the affected in continued XX% mortgage would would the by in a quarter activity XX.X% activity quarterly decreased year-over-year reconciliation XX% XX.X% annualized The which rates. of persistency this the high absent that in increase annualized mentioned continued XX.X% XXXX materially premium single annualized have the

near-term mortgage Given will the that persistency below environment rate trends. is long-term remain expected current it

single as in of policy profit the in quarter XXXX. XXXX due linked quarter in in XXXX increased commission compared were is the The the the million to now in primarily million quarter premium our third as quarter basis cancellations the a second earned on increase to of that of XX% of and an in driven adjustment XXXX second million in quarter of quarter by to to quarter provision premiums loss $XXX.X Moving the $XXX.X increase XXXX. Net of impact third earned the recognized of third premiums. well accrued $XXX.X the

by net compared Our premium earned driven premiums This XXXX. the acceleration. to X% is single primarily higher in increase increased as third quarter

this to points basis XX.X XX.X XXXX. in Our noted the XX points as quarter direct quarter in-force was quarter basis on slide and XX.X third last yield of premium compared basis points

turned prior to relative contributed magnitude rate including yield business new previous has The we Recent over. of mortgage lower As mix quarters, timing insurance and relative mix levels cancellations our of vintages. faster to new the insurance and portfolio the and changes as portfolio will prepayments depend a of the portfolio portfolio of continue pace in in-force also the and yield on portfolio to in volume of yield volume, written of our several higher future have of activity. pricing the change factors and our written noted and trends future in expect of refinance insurance persistency to

same for X.X cancellations to third ceded the basis quarter noted ceded points increase net by profit Approximately in remains of basis reconciliation a service the or basis XX% XXXX XXXX which and quarter the associated yields rate premium of driven commission primarily quarter. due single second our XX% X.X XXXX in and the the profit the due points when quarter release points commission premium This linked basis points compared increased points as third X.X in quarter to to a single million basis premium cancellations $XX.X environment. our X.X points higher revenue and of was negative of the to to year basis L. from of The basis reinsurance occurred $XX.X activity this compared QSR. level premiums refinance previously the quarter the level and compared Our by year. observed to of ago. of activity in low $XX.X in of to deals increased of quarter compared total premium to higher quarter primarily impact the due of XXXX. The XX.X related components as $XX.X The quarter million X the second compared the XXXX cancellations was million negative impact XXXX premiums in of quarter on to compared yield the that continued of include second is mentioned the $XX.X to cancellations Exhibit for quarter a estate real of points interest premium the single level yield single representing drive an high of XX.X in basis due the third to is segment under to quarter million press higher third quarter elevated third Other on increase improvement to of yield revenues primarily million second of last

were quarter finally Our estate the due X% million quarter year was investment same quarter of loss prior lower income from reported to XXXX adjusted million. cash end, and XXXX from the EBITDA X.X XX% this for X.X prior prior our investment recently which of both offering. reallocation real securities. quarter quarter And a of investments third from years was the a and the $XX $X.X to by from yields, due duration senior May in investment longer offset up partially the debt was portfolio from flows approximately and purchased quarter proceeds on At duration years additional portfolio underwriting down

now quality. Moving provision and credit loss our to

of provision $XX.X quarter compared XX, of decreased third of quarter for to $XXX million in the XXXX million the slide on noted the third the for quarter As in $XX.X XXXX. to and losses XXXX second

under the XXXX. are million of million Our XXXX the which ceded quarter the of our benefit and million in second compared to programs were a XXXX $XX.X quarter third losses, of in quarter $X.XX third reinsurance in $XX.X

assumption third of the driver from is we our X.X% origination the in approximately new older to slide defaults approximately for not and the program proprietary of policies XX,XXX quarter of in on at shown losses concentrated available and as It result, is third defaults third on average than the quarter has the had of for new on reserves XXXX period were September The as XX,XXX is remember These as on third approximately recent were new of quarter outcomes vintages to XX% the XX, these which new important on from as remained a models. at the XXXX. XXXX to slide which these new quarter XXXX. recent that the heavily rate shown of As and X.X% second reported development information vintages. that compared both the average for acclaim defaults It of is primary economic our more forbearance XX,XXX experience, claims-made of higher quarter these defaults XXXX. quarter note the XX, an second prior we defaults the written been and the to of increase the important a be of from approximately based XX was provision on our defaults material. unchanged our during metrics have default Also quarter includes on as third time reserve best own were estimate XXXX external in XXXX in risk

all circumstances estimating subject change at beginning that the to payments time. widely. been and of estimates to which pandemic the will upon available our are realized variability estimate observed under in for each is a point loss period normal vary future has change be at since economic of are reporting mind of that frequency in As amount years. reserves claim Keep we Since many based several in time the and we elevated information this not it have continues

our slide have participation additional on mechanics XX. portfolio rates information and webcast program on We for shared Forbearance

cure total positive of our These for in delaying Forbearance people compared which earnings or for intended of keep default our homeowners is as default on and statistics decline inventory and for preventing in to release industry homes noted update are the primary our Forbearance are as claim they activity month. inventory are an payments. As XX% of further the a programs decreased defaults thus and in our their programs. defaults new Included XX% increased operating slide, number prior both our in new to shows October

in cure represented new month. the XXX% October reported activity defaults the of Our

expenses, million $XX.X third in in in quarter of XXXX. the expenses of quarter in third expenses to incentive to operating compared which quarter driven period. operating XXXX second for by quarter second the quarter million was compared of XXXX primarily increase the an the of the based turning adjustment in second The other quarter to share XXXX compensation expense in the $XX.X $XX.X of XXXX third reduced that were Now million and

Moving to taxes. now

Our overall rate the a recorded XX.X%. our the of primarily one-time was to the quarter IRS successful was item effect effective completion our year. in an tax of effective tax tax following the decrease third The discrete due XXXX for quarter for rate third XXXX of of exam

effective remains annualized of with the Our generally XX%. rate statutory consistent items discrete rate tax before

assets to approximately our XXXX. of capital Radian PMIERs cushion. of assets available a billion excess at represents and over available Guaranty quarter the Now of required the and moving assets $X.X of The as third end liquidity. available million billion PMIERs of assets XX% minimum $X.X required were $XXX.X minimum approximately

We of on XX PMIERs slide assets basis XXXX. utilized available have minimum XX, noted as of our of which required if September resources also billion, a $X.X excess on XX% our represents fully consolidated

through asset reduced press $X.X on as traditional XXXX we includes transactions Guaranty’s third-party XX, reinsurance, linked billion required note which minimum have Radian Exhibit noted PMIERs execution September distributing requirements of As insurance release reinsurance by and risk L. by

limited and to of a back regulator better the our billion to $XXX.X of available from also will facility XX, level us This September call we and ever weather XX, its by of while expected liquidity. remind XXXX. with fulfill I the subsidiaries is Total XXXX. XXst emerge through and $X.X ready as well of company XXXX-X risk company's and the mortgage to taken the excess credit expense, maintained October includes the we aggregate with complete are pandemic, coverage XXXX and in stress portfolio crisis us flows. positioned flows markets over September Rick. not to notes October, flexibility It quarter steps the issuing in and we cash not an was an important of a eligible And and of our impact third-party Eagle macroeconomic fully risks and immunity and ahead. liquidity, us strategic insurance of interest strong end, investors of $XXX.X further before Limited. Eagle turn absorb billion negative long-established the loss premium $XX RE July private our tax on XXXX agreement to an Radian in economic and systemic to from the linked And certainty predictability enhanced any provide help third Radian million for near-term offering. our position strength as which financed the insurance an billion are capital of to and provides sharing This reinsurance in For $X.X stresses listeners financial insurance Group, we believe with the cash issued its of than results, provides recent now that mortgage dividends and an subsidiaries. mission. most million parent new of eligible unregistered $XXX.X economic will that in approved agreements we the to million will reinsurance collateralized despite parent increased have in were remain by company of entered mortgage defaults uncertainties between coverage RE Overall, existing aggregate COVID-XX reinsurance defenses will to years initial to XXXX our portfolio posed place for policies agreement recurring the by have we Xst on into up financial XXXX-X downturn subsequent enhance that for losses of this Guaranty to with in-force believe amount funded our quality effects

Rick Thornberry

Frank. you Thank

the all matters. we our of to midst exercise we the to while to legislative can cleared a of was saw the At of country. to in meetings I that right vote. our regulatory scheduled acknowledge leanings, had voting employees election we their Regardless of Radian, your for now pandemic Turning ensure inspiring political level sufficient think calendars during flexibility

industry the and loss credit a As to century. of half successfully outcome for to cycles private economic has been the that a highlight protection is mortgage insurance first than election, administrations the more providing through it important numerous

a low are mortgage in private borrowers. permanently the income of ensuring dedicated capital and We taxpayers while source system moderate dream the for of protecting ownership home

through a the business We the and during crisis. at have great COVID-XX now record recession written level uninterrupted

business housing consistent distribution. risk capital both and and system. aisle to an the efficient our well-positioned recognized programmatic emphasis of with to continue and is fulfill in we dynamic evolve are proven both sides improve believe model finance important credit standards, including this risk Our on strong risk-based continues management pricing, and role and that operations to is on the We

appears was understand impact capital the proposed the required including, is on in FHFA level submitted transfer and of the risk for capital have the committed would increase to a and while We rule look albeit the the the like to framework. capture finalize on proposed considering the borrowers, definition new expected enterprise In loans rationale focused these of proposed. patch which terms capital if The finalization eligible regarding expect CFPB currently we areas they new their as definition, to FHFA's adopted we CFPB GSE the worthy recently been announced and an of an Safe of our questions proposal. for diminished its is focus material the would Harbor QM the credit more soon. of of until in extension QM business importantly, Numerous as not see value pricing of comments QM sometime framework the new to process the to credit comments

in our the mind recently government including proposal that balance ensuring new the housing the interests products GSE healthy new and want step in system. issued for process to evaluating a also FHFA for among private on finance a We pilot important programs, note an

and proud markets affordable want of Radian Finally, to of need real Americans journey reduced the and begin able are realize to innate mortgage not difficult tremendously the the for has important or we to wealth. time. ownership dream at being estate building the options the this home many to of pandemic support desire mortgage The emphasize during I how sustainable for

been pandemic to and get that been creative to and estate to our aligning this by into drive help have many policies years valuation remote solutions to have mortgage loan digital navigate supporting American even critical in ownership teams people borrowers homes home, come. the environment. real and such title look of the advancing procedures safely ensure affected or homeowners and modification with closings. as forbearance helping unprecedented Our the home mortgage by through We so for continuing our been teams alternatives have forward Once dream the tools

we'd operator Now take questions. to like


Thank comes from Suisse. Please you. question Harter [Operator first from Instructions] go Douglas And Credit our ahead.

Douglas Harter


priced Okay. investors? about the being by and recent those risk transaction got ILM Can is you the most talk on pricing you

Frank Hall

additional earlier The don't in I points bonds some last Frank. points. This Why that add of compared or year a the color. spread the Derek and Yes. issuance that basis last was start a we then to basis the issuance the and on all XXX blended of on on pricing is can in XXX basis received

feel it it of anything. those overall Derek, So and to financial our was still at quite a we levels you think us capital a add the strength. cost for spreads but enhancement attractive widened bit, to

Derek Brummer

just that significant to would be that obviously appetite. I continues add Yeah

see see very trend do light. in and of housing U.S. positive investors kind the that market we're a the think I seeing

also we've on some think with market think I well. in know the of So as kind you I kind gone seeing bit generally is the crisis, what seen structures that we've the of of pricing which through tightening, of the consistent just a you're CRT in as

Douglas Harter

of kind I housing know population and impact of you kind And when then can guess severity kind if you how the they about the price home that claims of get the ultimate difficulty] talk market, of that and just default that how [technical appreciation, of current of point on there. those strength might

Derek Brummer

Derek. this Sure

seeing know at continue So looking home is terms to depending held you're we in appreciation, anticipated to rapid kind of so and home X% at, index the which a prices more somewhat you're range, you unusual of up and price given X% appreciate have have have than pace year-over-year ago, months been. on unemployment that rates of much would prices home kind up going several where

really a in homeowners and of propensity equity what of to of and and to that positive foremost So from in exit a of continue positive that's appreciation that, the loans default impact it that as to built default been roll it up roll has first does terms and with have because you one delinquent to kind allows of equity to terms then out status. claim, different paths to get

rate go I sooner also seeing our roll but peak So of but I default then why be kind down, that's period certainly think and and claim default say rapidly XX anticipated. it certainly, of would of a we're takes the that for one reason default seeing positive our ultimately a time that's those than and positive have a months claim, very can of And new more is kind time cure terms you to default obviously of in period for also to about our average but roles severity. go see where we're to before it'll impact

Douglas Harter

Great. Thank you Derek.


Riley. from question from B. go Randy ahead. next our comes Binner Please And

Randy Binner

there? course reinsurance lower Hey reinsurance from it thanks. one performance of would of the is in understanding an trend and I and the quarter. be that a bit expected this the underlying deals little of kind than ask yield wanted better mix, light there good off-start premium product in we because And agreements of on to could but

Rick Thornberry


that of more premium the have vintages careful upon about would are careful is become the the and portfolio I cancellations, which is that guide yield the certainly about to variable as but think is is vintages, I and out largely portfolio the over do an priced we south the performance I the more on program cancellations, expect is turns mean, the you time and overall higher as over what that our pace the that at see something look QSR we covering. X prediction there. of dynamic variable X decline reinsurance that policy sort material some time, premium coming premium are reinsurance. impact is over single be to dependent new the that the older the to item the has of reinsurance and just with want of single

programs the So policies, goes QSR for the as to so variability on the goes single premium us.

Randy Binner

in guess to how just which and lower the right. in price is follow-up All other from market? business competition That's pricing yourself We're is sense helpful. related that then pricing. And characterize hearing regard would you makes the MIs I your

Derek Brummer

Yes. Derek. This is

segment talking about you could think terms to it what of per I segment. probably have in you're

you part. pretty our if radar we box of at we'd you increases their QX the an pretty kind I quarters and you've raised much black across rates for pricing so the saw competitors and some So last through increase. indicated, rates seen raised most and compared everyone early those think pricing, pricing up board look of then the on you've to hold seen And

some you've seen have that bulk seen a kind bid we more competition from the distinguish I pricing they say I perspective. of side bulk so of their bids would pricing where is and on think

priced don't ones We recent some seen in levels. the we've think even of I below those. pre-COVID participate

compared have competitors. market tend in historically not to that's see Certainly of as participated. haven't that share volatility to some much reflected you as We our we our

peak I hit increase the where and beginning saw bit of or we're So which crisis obviously factors surprising early at fourth look pricing COVID the look models. where I you the of at kind that's economic everyone's I some we'll seen seeing quarter terribly you of if would this And and where indications two of sum of say the competition, certainly at isn't probably in spots the up competitor think is where of when a kind kind a point. deterioration that the of kind maybe back going at picking probably of the uncertainty into that's we've that

Randy Binner

for Thanks that. right. All


Mark comes question next Our DeVries go Instructions] Barclay. ahead. [Operator Please from from

Mark DeVries

out flow. some and the talk conditions to of need tailwinds there for yet really and Would called strong for this same you those of also you're know as meaningful potentially to still Thank real you. of generating seeing assets out, bids improve headwinds shareholders? not at unlock you business for performance the cash any types the are to in consider and kind really about but valuations There obviously value what that you Can quarter just you divesting business estate time assets some some marketplaces. healthy see you those

Rick Thornberry

our real kind segment is growth I This and and we see which in includes to title your Mark. and seeing I of business say are I think. what seeing Thank business. businesses Look real we're you. and title estate about where appreciate question our and expect our really growth our here's would Rick estate we growth

a my in as year-over-year even mentioned of a script significantly think of just cycle. being customers that process much not up sales in I seeing orders I so are and business title the very pipeline from we're implemented strong

other the and title between comments my activities. split just I'll real estate so we So

business, really of build advance capacity hire requires we're So title from it level us very we to people and growing these effectively business to and start kind as small a that and that implement our quarter-by-quarter. scaling customers in

part growth of title. some is from the So revenue

up expense Some building clients capacity is new ahead part entering. the of those of

a that an we comfortable kind our feel industrial to around are it customers So like kind becoming something growth the see title we size, think right. path It I very with opportunity customers and that's chip and all is of of strength are our title. taking relationships lender that's of important, the the of size accretive very part business blue and scaling from startup to

growth strongly. the the some so feel other of real assets that's your interesting can think strongly In comment one valuations digital that feel we real of estate. estate across future is that title about of you have opportunity side, I that you that a the see So towards because side play we we kind mortgage a valuable set unique and and very that on

view has where more I it assets through it's a the going of specifically across estate the set future evaluation real also of could of around we is towards world, been with We think information property where unique think traditional brought world data statistics. the condition, from unique have again point versus transaction. go years But of that estate the about valuations continue the appraisal XX-plus in property play relevance to but assets we've real sort accumulated we very we over very a have

see a so to continue PropTech like we FinTech, But so, view. startup are, industrial-strength And I to to businesses businesses. perspective as from is investing point to them from a technology startups. of those there of What's those a view revenue grow they we're mature and from analytics like, also data and aspects some you point refer continue

am a Machine like versus investments minus process we're things technology. and value see and in couple concerned robotic building the through proprietary millions little And bit less so plus how or of there and Learning those process AI EBITDA automation are about businesses I it building we the

about think best So, in valuations? stewardship our to of way capital. through and consider optimize we've for your think just our demonstrated and as we and We are think to capital question value about the our the I planning do how do through investor shareholder

that I in you we're in think aware to to optimize we situations we continue value. have assets the do of think assume do inherent market them understand and of and can those the manage we the very value businesses that

continue assets refined to of for businesses, start we to up down and progress but we're made very So we always team. and focused hard kind to feel next these the good about refine being the business We've us MI it's kind strength good at. we like by incredible Feel is an standing where the got where team see very have very about industrial an on of value. have

Mark DeVries

you. Okay. Thank Got it.


comes question Jack Please our go And ahead. from next from Micenko SIG.

Jack Micenko

Hi, first one Derek. for

prior think sounds all question more what frequency what that improving the but are Going than mix, was on this trying through your you reserving is a saying or quicker the frequency -- quarter days either are right, we're maybe looking the coming your a comment little down saying that think volumes severity you're around the very it not be is else's, I like explanation, credits it's coming at or of issue to convey? a

Derek Brummer

was the in how and that in, of in are and really future some them terms looking factored Well about out question reserving talking kind reserving. of

kind didn't from significant any make of our look we at So approach it, you of changes perspective. in if a terms reserve

going loan you're kind be seeing default. to driven sets an It's approved of really movement by obviously where So of reserve any they age.

payment So three quarter you of direction. so we had in have on pushing the missed to more that bucket age that that last kind two

seeing default of going what new to are look more see on you're did those where that's on the new starting the then So movement and like default they we're the way to more pre-COVID.

So a being bit the a FICO lower being balance the bit lower.

terms to inventory driven as of assumptions. opposed it's So really changes in reserved by any are the

Jack Micenko

and then from was last had that unchanged Okay, X.X you quarter.

X. Your at peers are

incrementally one X to think on I went quarter. this

more I don't is the around but do industry were at, the what looking know between consistent you Radian seven world and conservative? being last currently your an they others you the models, of think, particular you how do their in what think difference think guys were outlier just given in the are quarter

Rick Thornberry

it this I'll Rick. one. take is this Jack

just did that of continues all quarter, looking place and walk we the and we go in how economic think forward would research there's this X, different at and forward scenarios. point as difference that through to cure. we plays exist, rate look, that you have then and to all the I between so that go be I an that to I judgment, the around a second quantitative remind record the see and a X, on a the last the X.X% thought to and apply I that, as the we and quarter whether change. landed. we've in of we third And the not it's a default about quarter them like still the I enough through also this XX.X% management feel out historical continued think think here -- teams I X.X% where as quarter-to-quarter have did you say as there's analysis, thoughtful quarter, about through scenario, of -- have uncertainty we we in factor kind look are trends we and forward where good we government's scenario I felt programs it also judgment from applying track scenario when see would claim assumes positive, but would you

but their judgment. going in we're continue the it apply felt different XX.X% I versus whether scenario of and we insignificant we're monitor to see through others like and as or would XX% we approach companies, We swayed market So our warranted some market talking and I how navigate about say cure, differences the really between by mean applied this level being to judgment. uncertainty caution, the

Jack Micenko


at on when kind in forbearance will. sort the I about the or a guys that's mean I think rate. maybe you're do Is default and are at woods it rate? the claim looking I looking think you high-water You're after guess, of XXX% period or when more October if mark accretive you in of post we're it kind of of running ends you out in pandemic you on a get aggressive comfort how more little just from getting thinking perspective? risk

Rick Thornberry

October to That's I as points numbers the question and in pointed continue going to very months look need Frank as is so total our news as trends. early you good of in careful how you career also strong down think, look need chime look really I before four well, default a just is our you make decision we and my be out I really you data something. about great strong, Yes. but learned many how, and rates a way would Derek at it let the announced good

but the think we're you not but very would I that separate. look got good I there So trends to say yet,

are defaults new defaults, New right.

want occurring back go and are they we we've developing, the commented trend this, maybe cures So a is lost just expect I new where how we're go really seen how we're think They Derek the seeing comment materially. there we've occur. are on the on monitoring cures how to they defaults trend come seen that trends mitigation they're Derek there? have to to those current, and good developing, trend The you cures is how down to

Derek Brummer

bit bit more I also pay. we're an forbearance of little need and does a loans of time seeing mean transition essentially have to think it think people kind what obviously those not Yes. option I a I

So to time giving little I at development. it point this think a again see

whether period small out. time here very talking small differences takes and so develop of for are to we're or X.X, said, kind X.X a it of you're at Rick As cures X.X these those about very

trends going, side situation, and So of a things think so from what stability that's that, a we see and terms year-over-year. be so It price more home bit economic be to see are positive uncertainty thus to I continuing terms that do the very lot macroeconomic we'd this what far we it's in I think appreciation the and of still at going certainty underpinning up because also driven seeing in COVID-XX change on there we're at point. to where really see looking it's early going make a of around perspective just

Jack Micenko

Okay. Well appreciate everybody. Thank I'm sorry. you.

Frank Hall

from how kind to want how your And that do to in proceed add, business it remember of I future? add expectation want book just claim our thing to rate, will complete time. that which our I to is Jack, when that one reserves really how to through more evolve that it's of is the I question put default we think, important for does

the negative So if to see and positive you in the right future. never adjustments adjustments. trends both got we it that's any the monitor there's We where to

things get-go are again change apply from as we play time. default performance things occur based scenario are those the So on new but assuming that get don't it judgment every on those we and through driven adjustments we go obviously that out that right

to highlight want reserving view. you of from point So just for I a that

Jack Micenko

you. Great, thank


question Our comes from next George [Operator KBW. Bose Instructions] from

Bose George

wanted on competition. through comments to go Hey guys I afternoon. just the good

but a big side know market whether just even that directly on in you're the of in the not lender that's impacting you player I aren't active whether that's bulk that to in grow sort of I'm market, players participating in it, there's see other obviously curious trying terms growing been guys it? active you and if market Just share the

Rick Thornberry

the value years. I say in there we mean, see for because the where to been years tough and market's terms for has dynamic it's relative that of Yes there been

like quite I period participating when question value. really we in And a a it's that talk just us, about time. of market said relative that's not So a consistent been for of for

value while different market sorts pricing of is writing there's in you where terms you're is where segments of given terms housing generally business. the of kind all value of So business see can just in in the where

I looking are we use Obviously capital that's really the value an significant will seen black kind pricing just us. we For to last in got the put box would relative all the opposed changes this embedded for optimal percentage and would a opportunities us, absolute, economic of that's but at not the highest where's box really when of do our of half the bid in of basis to it's over kind work say pricing matters in year at say the look going from once black where and we year, relative terms perspective, percentage bulk haven't an at I those on value market. as the lenders and market the look a of market the kind of

other. that would to as me secular So no but that it's shift shift there's dramatically going to way speculate where the a it's would or to kind go, hard little of cause think one to

Bose George

market, in going Okay. do That's that? things the terms and size the of for the in helpful that's just ever feel you roughly of percentage the bulk

Rick Thornberry

not It's would that going it be not quarter. exactly characterize I'm what this sure little probably I'm Yes. a to

our in So kind best also you a the I kind and breaks tell of since of not little demure we're we're so it's not to on can position, tough one I'll speculate. participating down where probably pricing that and

Bose George

lot. a Thanks Okay.

Rick Thornberry

Thank you, Bose.


Mihir from America. last question your of comes And from Bhatia Bank

Mihir Bhatia

questions. thank Hi, for you taking the

term, business segment EBITDA on Just some targets you and that Is in can we a of I rate quick the mentioned long as start. to the to you business just discussion. think back been appraisal for you about know that you're I some remind then just while terms just down but headwinds stuff. also you’ll winding for run and size but go had recently thinking restructuring the growth estate revenue us your want back, us and real XXXX think of you're changed you managing to know the traditional there's there, has on wanted I the help because little will? the I understand that if real I the top-line

Rick Thornberry

receiving kind think, not question. feel we really off business. Mihir, we thank competitive you sold guidance would we've say, that for in given we value. And sit feel, relationship our where with kind on are And Clayton the confident we've been think, had it value on focused of before they're where of years again, I look, long-term the creation about the that I we how benefits very the and the will us At consider we we I customer. terms view, point today, but guidance that in see are or of we these these we point, right differentiation provided say from businesses on lenders and going feel aside ground a of understand our from some forward. today, stakes value the value we have I that we'll businesses the and we they at give so in those trajectory putting of track

wind kind material our we trends. that of kind wanting the financial and information and franchise market we've we kind a it's be to of business terms our around aspect But lying see our valuations in AMC market, differentiation traditional in sure thinking like financial continued and more a business, of but I businesses really these that which we're analytics and impact of our come of to about has on whether businesses estate it's and AMC to really value to our and the strategic commodity ability of view would result from technology. done and analytics data of team data kind that leverage strength shape we've digital net markets question like felt as job a more a see core analytics around make we and down just of like part how general as think more we of are Some and your across say expect property focused growth the from obviously point a of and great towards I we're announcement view was data the our which include the no of on of aligned or little down that opportunities felt real around would we a business point bit and

impact business kind net So I see financial of segment the AMC any going our of forward. we kind on don't P&L

Mihir Bhatia


capital Okay the terms just current much and PMIERs upside you're much about good then targeting to how a how Is if capital just you obviously want and anything in will. in position. one of have, you're last question this the excess in environment on capital ILN excess there after you

to to a or capital right now the just what like is preserve time want You we'll as have and looks it matter outlook it is see the improves?

Frank Hall

Frank. is Sure. This

and our of that expectations inventory to in are the I are it couple think PMIERs context PMIERs our delinquency those when migrate. are of it managing we of really right comes moving how that impact what parts now. a There

the through of CARES So charge Act for sizable PMIERs the capital instance get portion programs that for we fairly benefit forbearance benefit. represents a the

be to So to be happening we near around things just that careful could us term. want

your characterization yes so, statement. an And is think preserving I accurate it of certainly

the We parent very at level in operating company. healthy which reflected the not a cushion also maintain is of company

that there a with dollars over in support a as to we're well, So position. it we good billion feel

we serve new $XXX in debt earlier issued year you'll the that was defensive also in purposes. to think I senior million remember intended

that would capital management right your say is from of orient way thinking it. I yes, our So the right around now of preservation the to perspective

Mihir Bhatia

my questions. you. Thank are Those Thank you. all

Frank Hall

you. Thank


more from question Phil we And Deutsche one have do Bank. from Stefano

Phil Stefano

are your in consumer I wondering to Yes. I translated know lessons in around afternoon. days, early any Thanks was any pricing of there have programs serving? out good that its behavior or but and forbearance changes the way

Derek Brummer

early a little to It's tell.

policy think say thing just certainly response perspective, mind are the a to and industry that's would keep programs forbearance to the I exits the the in positive. government and then from I with the

about elevated servicing you would from to this say see we'll crisis the financial one and think downturn, things would as how play of the I previous of data the a compared and risk kind out and of to I elevated we and certainly certainly proactive say how government is, quickly defaults much that about better downturns that, So of in have and claims and also is the perspective. the think kind

paths pay on foreclosure is for good process. been to keep their impetus companies that MI real don't goes this then a given until the who in So homes, It's homeowners homeowners. crisis. And claims the forbearance through side exit in good the have obviously actually just which for

perspective. all So options point. in end at certainly things of better the amounts but making that a provides like take deferrals weren't this a payment putting out that ultimately factor more path I the see of of pricing way a at positive I would play those it and claims, where ends you and a to them up the would essentially default in tacked that kind on little significant to less much paid all equal and say likely from It's time being roll that over nothing mortgage, early

Phil Stefano

historically a programs to course couple recession. had about it thinking that cycle layer of if we Is to upwards of lows and past we we in had after have it. years a that it don't well industry about the it's -- adjusted is fair as then think to severely haven't benefit look and standard be those nearly think being deviations. as have reinsurance for lows on that the the of the and a been you those couple about bad Got a may we for Maybe pressured on drawing XX-XX year

Derek Brummer

kind business of as Well, certainly I back held look fundamentally that loss is we transformed financial had the We bought the from crisis that ratio that where you go and the perspective. think, earnings risk. we volatility in past a to

certainly having model managing, that aggregating, so which cuts off the we're a risk. Now, tail that risk distributing

very the to and much you terms our and the exit positive, as QC held better that's these rates mitigating in on back have then paths be You COVID for up parties. higher much in crisis see have underwriting through better continue of we quality default quality credit end effects

this for I I of to kind a the an industry. think first downturn we've more stability. those fundamental see So think historical message about It's things going for would volatility lows. we've number been right. decrease we're is creates that all terms a does of transformation you're of years, It those of certainly talking made as seen in and I It this we've since that

Phil Stefano


Rick Thornberry

to Phil Since important. I see been add industry I heard, of just Derek's the I've just insurance we think the think would sort or last because of in this recession would some through to go times point a got I I number I've downturn. it's industry mortgage

what factors plus through industry this Derek went the the of think is really factors I outlined. all strength so industry you kind mortgage And based showing see its that on he

I quality hate losses continue the through to on to high think, always it were purpose underwrite but I serving say and taking claims cycle. to in the so And pay business stride, we're meant is we service which to

the economic working difficult business with levels we're record industry. through of So a doing pretty scenario

I control. the think to event incentive there's try understands the everyone kind borrowers other economically where factor of Normal home a activity an we socially, is outside keep politically their in really economic of them get through an fact normally, the we side. support a but that move we highlighted industry through can the to this as crisis has homeowners and as country and a other they

have credit U.S. reserves do capital there industry and source why industry I a see. for very think of the that's in it's which risk showing permanent reckoning, we that big MI have factor of and as strength be capital. think a supporting the will to why different investors we a is I Now day and private But

Phil Stefano

it. Got

do What segment estate on this of questions business? want me that the you happening Mihir’s to back to can success want real us do to around I there? or judge creation focus value how going see metrics is Just Rick, you do that appreciate you the

Rick Thornberry

it, lot great that a begun things of of I don't really really always to and question, I We we Phil. investors it's talk digital of businesses. mind think that have businesses fit it's appreciate Listen and and and Yes. about got to I we rid I small I a And that know accumulated are think we've think these scale businesses where very model. that top

we but think real data will context valuations our question think do from our have are your do I a question those take how really that I and think think to analytics we businesses in same I see a what believe is disruptive. you be you We're value. activities, develop not of the the for out from growth view. the FinTech, there. what of investment think today see and business can a hear going growing important give view of technology and about of continue guidance just into can PropTech we true about I ,but the other of would these is from the to We very the from me earlier I point estate business strong the what think can point that to we're into businesses consideration. and we and to revenue kind title of view value, I any and here see kind But point see growing exploit can you from our team to

it's understand about how we'll think of we better I that and help because market go can important question as an investors and kind question, the your forward. we think take I'll So

Phil Stefano

Thanks. right. All

guys. it. Looking Be forward well to

Rick Thornberry

you. Thank Yes.


I like Thornberry to Rick call We remarks. have for final this would the over at further no time. questions to turn

Rick Thornberry

all you Thank you. for Thank your questions.

opens like I'd our helps up, the an for are of wrap organization mention and families mission recently ownership. fundraiser we foundation that important shares annual We home completed The who MBA foundation to our Radian. critically doors which enabling Before ill. at protecting

remain while their in homes in children their Our treatment. injured children are

to their a Heroes campaign, many raise the people lives donate sharing foundation you, to encourage through so of help positive stories the while who which our of With of in everyday we money make someone impact.

donations other incredible one As to more we the have all $XXX,XXX matched during MBA open the stores. to we total support with to COVID-XX than pandemic, organizations the brought work of two which

all to you soon. and if thank you. safe, you we'll So be to to sooner well but joining those We speaking next and for not talk again be contributed of look Thank you today. for forward us quarter who


gentlemen for and this Ladies conference. participating. Thank you. today's you Thank concludes

disconnect. now may You