RDN Radian

John Damian Head of Corporate Development and Investor Relations
Richard Thornberry Chief Executive Officer
Franklin Hall Senior Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer
Derek Brummer President of Mortgage
Randolph Binner B. Riley Securities, Inc.
Bose George Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods, Inc.
Mark DeVries Barclays Bank PLC
Mihir Bhatia Bank of America Merrill Lynch
Ryan Gilbert BTIG, LLC
Geoffrey Dunn Dowling & Partners Securities, LLC
Jack Micenko Susquehanna International Group, LLP
Call transcript
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Welcome to the Radian Fourth Quarter 2020 Earnings Call. My name is Anne and I'll be your operator for today's call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. the and to Corporate turn of Damian, now Relations Investor Development. will call John over Head I Mr. Damian, you may begin.

John Damian

Thank you, XXXX year-end quarter fourth and welcome conference to call. Radian's and

and per these financial Our share, which press and GAAP is and income website. will net the income, non-GAAP today's operating EBITDA. and This the equity our during adjusted operating found release for diluted press to press on contains adjusted real of to was G call Radian's be our and A section pretax on at return release, the net yesterday discussed in which reconciliation F posted operating quarter be may complete measures including the adjusted exhibits measures, of website the Investor estate Investors description evening release year issued of certain results adjusted and section includes

technical is for that our I Due portion Q&A adjusted dividing hand Chief the GAAP Officer. In Brummer, for you issues real and related is segment. during This that Radian's you from all of ask estate call. Mortgage. measure, sound will by Chief would Hall, on Frank EBITDA Officer; margin of or President may speakers Also any adjusted Radian to call quality morning, hear environment, the current remote. by the addition, Derek of are excuse Rick non-GAAP total real estate the estate Thornberry, EBITDA calculated please arise Executive the our Financial revenue real

this which actual call to that These projections forward-looking like risks to current and subject remind assumptions we results materially. that statements and expectations, would made on statements. you Before include differ cause uncertainties begin, during estimates, comments to may will are are based I

the on XX-Q SEC. in risk on XX-K third regarding and These are for quarterly review report website. quarter of our available statements For statements included our subsequent in release Form reports factors our please Form also as the cautionary forward-looking updated with the earnings XXXX and included these in risks, discussion of XXXX our the filed

would I over Now to like the Rick. to call turn

Richard Thornberry

and morning. us your joining for for Radian. interest Thank Thank you good in today you, John, all and

the the is at not XXXX that back play abrupt had last crisis out we look say COVID-XX a and year, In originally March, it crisis. momentum demonstrating storm resiliency and ability strong building challenging impacted well levels we year. and real our record business since were pleased say the the last I'm were proud we global an safe economic as XXXX, operate the to been to As Despite through able to caused quarterly estate virtual with did XXXX pandemic a with our industry triggered day-to-day mortgage shift and to it's in financial our health Combining heightened throughout including divisive the planned. of of a and write by we think that our focus. social in full-year the to environment, to grow mortgage challenges say results segment. a shifting model I’m breaking pandemic storm. environment, perfect insurance our that the revenues business fair the while And I environment, new with largely as have cycle designed, in weathered unrest the political was work

from XXXX. this our the of lower first deliver year support billion I'd wrote unprecedented our strength to refinances portfolio continued breaking approximately default the XXXX details resulted financial grew but the of we business improvement fourth to signs high-quality while our record to XXXX. X% year-over-year persistency. portfolio. in insurance XXXX, note shortly, of results volume overall Although, of team of the primary over trends $XX me and our increase enter economy, and We It's their $XXX few navigate year contributed discuss momentum monthly of the during in NIW solid billion, in high premium market, of recovery helping of and pandemic and a grew will nearly we encouraged our across in important fifth our environment, annual investors, we in marked like Frank and to our the recognize for year-over-year. Radian highlights and of XX% in-force in thank are let the This partners, as time. customers, volume the continue the which a our XX% economic new consecutive volume. position quarter, in-force our during and We $XXX flow housing to the the Board us positive business share commitment that by is record insurance represented grew XX% insurance written quarter year-over-year fourth and which in billion, a increase

of we of the of primary segment, The driver company. projected our our mortgage dividends one needs and earnings and this our future meeting in even which Our largest returned insurance of the economic Mortgage portfolio, significant of is of is the the future industry, in continued earnings grew of than maximizing stockholders for value insurance portfolio. the quarterly through per as this the addition we value nearly to book our cash include our represented our vintage, XXXX high-quality in portfolio earnings mortgage increase our of value of share more by December achieved In our the in-force XX% focus insurance customers and We dividend $XXX our after XX, which economic than XX%. the that accounting more growth XXXX on XXXX. future quarter. We a for first to the million

we the changing to our economic were the able in to flexibility rapidly RADAR respond pricing of Given rates model, environment XXXX.

decisions, originate rates the returns with benefit earnings to book which intelligence strong our periods. to significant service Written relationships contribute environment Our and team produce in persistency, value. effectively with we historically interest XXXX attractive low business significant pricing the with high-quality excellent and navigate helped should vintage customer delivery combined and future competitive a value-based of market economic expect

$XXX the Estate a to our Real XX% million, challenging increase segment, were revenues pandemic environment, For despite compared total a full-year XXXX. for

our experienced a and certain the digital to valuation businesses our our data growth Title and strong Title growing customers and across increase from of REO the We and growth insurance While our support large resulting of the of our pipeline continued and with real for technology slowdowns title including eviction lenders, and sales pandemic, our the the in our The going staffing our strong investment XXX% was result in we slowdowns XXXX. fourth business, during platforms. by in focused close segment in XXXX business year-over-year positioning competitively in digital and and businesses into result remain orders of differentiated estate up largely a Estate estate Real on investors. saw the mortgage as a real analytics services consumers, loss business quarter moratoria operating to for the products businesses valuation driving foreclosure realtors, strategic customers, future data-driven year

well-positioned these value customer experienced estate confident maturity, we in are early stages their team remain the and are going their Although we that excited increased to businesses the an are about of stockholder real and very drive with future relationships forward. development and

year. during our next our we these capital to progress, We In Day, to we as to including increase which flexibility. strategic will Investor fortify more steps share businesses XXXX, our position details later planned announce we've financial about took this for

second due January we existing the the liquidity XXXX. senior During to $XXX available quarter, strengthened our extending term XXXX and credit by notes issuing our of facility of of million

impact the single business and Single and model manage We entered distribute XX% our and available execute through and pleased total a financial In cycle pandemic and business. executed capital than to ability guarantees risk insurance-linked weather Program, profile a of the million. XXXX strong grew more our focused and strong covers PMIERs our remaining with two position volatility our liquidity. that billion on quarter a to Quota PMIERs XXXX is the with capital vintages the company December our which continue total of I'm aggregate, capital holding and company increase cycle during for position fourth notes transaction Premium a and to $XXX Radian At we lowering mortgage of true for the well-positioned has Group the liquidity Share into to been $X.X $X.X Radian of the Reinsurance capital the ahead industry of XXXX, believe excess uncertainty maintained of production on through – that available the billion our XX, not with rating business strengthen a earnings, of XXXX. our premium assets We testament the flexibility, model. holding

market. now to the real mortgage estate broader Moving

purchase strong to the continue and pandemic significant home see through this We appreciation. perform extremely price with market volume growth, well environment

to market our strong country. significance prior housing low X% lives of the month the Price Index of X% annualized the in home redefined continued driven and led in XXXX, flourished during XXXX. in Radian many by prices quarter XXXX an the of momentum And demand from months demand. increase the XX% own Positive As three and pandemic, supply based from fourth the in data relatively the we all sales and rates aspects from latest Home increasing market existing on have over December, the last across home limited with the December housing in home our so interest strong

continued to moderate supply this of for and We healthy demand strong interest the and dynamics, home expect of and a rates are housing rate income appreciation year the sustainable low combination and price aligned well growth market. believe

and growth expect activity in the continued reductions we in ahead, the support gradual market to and home housing in improvements continued government refinances. vaccine rollouts anticipate purchase sustain economy U.S. and and Looking

approximately total market For mortgage estimate XXXX, projections $X trillion. of originations recent

$XXX last these increased It origination given that is to year also from in to for as our purchase our higher supporting the which is smaller of market $XXX note mortgage around vary. the private approximately insurance There on market volume loans a consensus is to projections, in expected insurance growing as XXXX expected market for positive be we compared benefit refinancial. industry expectations mortgage growth. to While further important be purchase compared is billion. Based overall persistency portfolio to declines, refinance private utilize to and in refinance our volume is likelihood as XXXX, billion the to support insurance

our support focused low has on plan administration's focus affordability the and these a access housing, which ensuring ambitious Turning legislative system. equitable moderate increasing an of finance sustainable and homes the The laid with the increasing for ensuring to ownership. affordable inventory areas, responsible, are housing an We administration home regulatory income of and for aligned to corporate borrowers, mission out Biden and landscape. in pathway

the to impact there a been to recent decrease, continues on basis support a by The package With that In help Based expected has GSE reduction. our should to extension would through the further of months impacted The announcement accelerate including premium XX business pass the and FHSA new the anticipate about Congress from FHA economic level unprecedented a XX of industry already point increased volume. underway. provide relief homeowners forbearance recovery mortgage reports government to assist recent potential XX change small shortly, by administration, of of discussion of possible we should the pandemic. stimulus, crisis. help by government borrowers an to broad is to to the the our

of serve of has of our mortgage the homeowners, to our proud the GSEs and while the history. served policies private on one at role markets and the same hence the mortgage industry, to struggling very housing are risk, aligning with throughout credit critical crisis, role this in first procedures support loss time, largest insurance We taking continuing of

Finally, and the continued committed for cycles. as capital to has private permanent through mortgage we've only source underwrite the is support said before, U.S. our credit mortgage risk industry credit risk consistently and of market

manage pandemic, structure. of continue capital the been risk further economic well overall to through as distributed resilience as during our strengthen model of Our period the has effectively business the our which and and a extreme performance company stress, ability a cycle proven will has our to

call over to for our like the financial of I position. turn Now details would Frank to

Franklin Hall

of as $X.XX XXXX. of share compared our $X.XX we $X.XX million net income financial was I'll per of income in fourth our drivers fourth the quarter diluted of results $XXX fourth diluted share XXXX. net quarter share per of and of the of or XXXX quarter and of net the reported you, share $X.XX key operating third last the XXXX of compared $X.XX to everyone. in as the the fourth revenue. income quarter third Adjusted $X.XX adjusted evening, income of share net in quarter good income per income per Rick, adjusted of in diluted now share in and XXXX issued for of the morning, recap GAAP diluted diluted to per XXXX Thank diluted operating quarter per to operating turn net To net

billion fourth quarter As Rick compared the billion our written quarter new third insurance $XX and earlier, in XXXX $XX.X in to the of during quarter mentioned of was $XX.X XXXX. billion the

XX% prior year. XX% a business. for down $XXX.X borrower New for XX% Direct was were slight recurring of in-force of were XX% the of a new insurance in for XXXX only year same monthly in-force end the written our XXXX insurance approximately with also new written in In the fourth as written of and insurance for refinances to means this the X%. our billion significantly X% the our to Primary XX% XX% insurance total, fourth ago, to of which other of the policies fourth of quarter compared quarter policies were single in third insurance for year-over-year premium quarterly at quarter, of of XX% business paid $XXX.X quarter XXXX and increase the XXXX the third increased to and the quarter compared quarter. from growth total billion premium quarter quarter new policies for new quarter the that third of

as cancellations, Absent been to fourth last additional growth due $X.X policy would quarter in-force ongoing additional cancellations which billion is X% elevated represented note insurance the monthly these of the in cancellations both a has XXXX. addition premium interest current of that not to servicer in to for we grown and process. XXXX And in-force, As year mix and rate also year-over-year. affected to third quarter, a the These portfolio and in-force overall these of policy and environment, cancellations a quarters has reconciliation ago have was the reminder, during year-over-year, low insurance single $X.X from materially experienced billion. premium XX% singles total by in important the in-force approximately shifted XX% of our third insurance as quarter part XX% of $X.X billion cancellations fourth year-end our of it monitoring approximately

persistency the XX-month XX.X% and XXXX. decreased Our in rate of in of quarter XX.X% prior quarter fourth from the XX.X%

of XX% annualized from XXXX. rate the persistency XXXX driven Our activity. the persistency slight decline in this increase fourth quarterly in annualized year-over-year third a XX.X% was and is from of The quarter, a continued quarterly by primarily decrease quarter high XX% refinance in quarter the level of

near-term our current the is mortgage persistency expected trends. long-term Given that will remain below expected rate environment, it

as $XX.X recorded past impact of fourth insurance to net the revenue similar quarter adjustment to over reclassification our business million. in by Further and the million a premiums a a line of as changes XXXX, fourth of until item on on E. premiums cancellation in quarter quarter Moving adjust in monthly earned linked XX XXXX both for the collected are in the quarter, million which to impact noted related million the title earlier quarter Slide details of the million estimates X% and now driven million deferred, on the XXXX primarily earned of but the XXXX. services third insurance which XXXX. yield value increase premium basis to The mortgage $XXX.X to shows decreased insurance five periods our the $XX.X fourth premiums. $XXX.X Exhibit in fourth initial previously presented million in are premiums were of is by $XXX.X the increased mortgage quarters, the policies that in earned compared excluding fourth trend related present $X.X of $XX.X quarter adjustment quarter not and in Net of well

quarter premium direct Slide points as Our quarter of to XX.X last XX.X and quarter basis on in-force yield noted XX.X compared was points this basis the fourth in XX basis XXXX. points

insurance the decline to lower and prior difference As continue relative of contributed expect of Recent due we higher NIW written to to persistency mix have trends associated our and faster to on and today's rate of premium vintages. levels continue in noted previous in-force mix a insurance also to to portfolio new yield rates in credit of change portfolio of portfolio. and in of and will timing of new magnitude depend relative pricing business factors, including several and of yield mix our yield The cancellations portfolio. to volume, the mortgage future the changes our prepayments in quarters, volume

segment XXXX, of million representing $XX.X XXXX compared XXXX. to of at revenues generating we commitment and XX%. panel of the to of in quarter targeted X% compared of X.X by is quarter decline insurance-linked reinsurance a is of were quarter incorporate the basis quarter forward single the returns pricing place quarter a quarter a basis million increase we reconciliation basis to do points with gross yield XX% to the in driver fourth do and of XX.X activity time a premium and the servicer which level Our points in origination. business, program, primary premium for mentioned year-ago. basis, cancellations occurred previously the which the points quarter. was remain fourth include the our that $XX attractive on to regard servicer linked was returns, from single impact related associated driven is of by reinsurers of on premium decrease cancellations With in our ongoing loan basis our transactions, XXXX XX% not the due X.X quota of and On process $XX.X the for the third value notes target same maximizing Approximately Estate economic Real a million share yields points X.X yield the risk between cancellations impact reconciliation in decrease. but third at the adjusted to These to new of focused of compared the

of estate estate category have X% all been periods the decrease reported balances EBITDA negative fourth investment E quarter XXXX was these which reallocation underwriting compared investment real operating other due and quarter that from changes. EBITDA was in results in all environment for details partially XXXX valuation in from up real Estate same prior in impact portfolio certain reclassifications. of by our continued our businesses. duration million loss the full-year XXXX from was reportable portfolio full-year additional and the reflect strategic The recently X.X for certain growing of for a lower investment the duration income from Our end, longer were title businesses XXXX, See to Real up primarily from XXXX on approximately restated quarter prior to debt the At due years And offering. of finally, prior adjusted estate the our and flow on was to the down years senior X% segment of quarter to real X.X cash composition the in changes for our the $XX quarter fourth proceeds fourth offset our prior of both fourth adjusted made our more quarter the this yields, to Exhibit million. and securities. investment these digital and year May the purchased quarter on of the XXXX quarter our and for COVID-XX we to and the quarter in investment both related $X and the Due of pandemic segments and

to our provision quality. loss and credit now Moving

the an fourth compared As for $XX.X million noted XX, the the XXXX in million of fourth from on provision XXXX. mortgage of $XX.X decreased of $XX.X to quarter in and for third increase XXXX Slide to quarter the million losses quarter

quarter quarter approximately Slide defaults fourth third XXXX XX, XXXX the we new in approximately XX,XXX on XXXX. XX,XXX compared of of in to XX,XXX the in shown quarter had approximately of As and the fourth

all the new to XXXX remained this quarter, rate the from million development the the defaults third defaults loss positive fourth to of The quarter XXXX. quarter the of to addition provision $X.X default increase XXXX originating related reserve fourth of related modest development and defaults from fourth on In assumption an of reported prior to with of new in X.X% XXXX. at unchanged quarter declaim for X.X% for we

As fourth of new shown approximately in COVID-related a approximately in the reported all end and of XX, be as on quarter Slide XX% forbearance were program defaults XXXX. of year defaults to at XX% December XX,

be unemployment, appreciation, the of claim is support, information important economic on positive to keep they are on the loans we note and as total us proprietary expected help remember This estimated additional end through of mechanics shared have these and based loans estimate a to overall homes reserve for disruption. XX% COVID-XX along in for external levels. are for slide approximately loans, models. and having as equity. that the people our We least environment These also the optimistic upon improving XX. what their at these insight I'll forbearance XX% includes program have with have defaulted forbearance best ultimate price at outcomes economic forbearance indicators, the homeowners lower owned to such related to temporary information programs, that economic make is of available time, webcast is about our home to cautiously our homeowners’ programs metrics some both industry governmental intended ongoing are factor our which It

serve XXXX, noted at cured under payments, quarters our into As circumstances normal developments. future show previous several estimate five reserve the may will be loss the that continuing from new XXXX and extend timeline the defaults have XX, of of as December of for broad each beginning is mortgage claim Slide XX, pandemic, to forbearance of we we XXXX. realized On percentage the an of options claim of not The in years. the for availability which our

was the number December an while month, quarter our statistics defaults. already XXXX As decline third cured. operating relatively January defaults released exceed and new cure primary activity from we as quarter XX% continued from in XXXX inventory defaults to of for flat XX% to defaults this the of showed further new Earlier noted, has of that second update approximately a default the

of new XXX% January cure represented activity Our defaults reported in the the month.

operating in were expenses. The compared third to operating fourth $XX.X to in $XX.X expenses in quarter the turning a million increase fourth quarter primarily related fourth quarter the XXXX non-operating is of compared million million and in to quarter million to Now in XXXX $X.X and share-based $XX.X expenses the incentive XXXX. increase expense. in Other of quarter the of XXXX to items XXXX the of third adjustments of compensation

now Moving to taxes.

tax Our XXXX overall fourth XXXX effect the in XXXX of item years. and for quarter decrease of of the discrete of a was XX.X%. for IRS The reported successful effective fourth the the quarter rate exam our due effective to our tax rate tax primarily following one-time was an completion

for tax discrete annualized XXXX consistent the with Our XX%. rate statutory before generally rate items of remains effective

available Now and to capital moving liquidity.

Radian $XX issued with initial in-force October coverage fully loss Eagle entered Re with in XXXX, reinsurance X, million XXXX. excessive recovered announced, Guaranty up aggregate reinsurance a This were reinsurance of July agreement risk $XXX.X previously agreement that and between of XXXX-X into billion As Ltd. for XX, October collateralized provides policies to XXXX

Radian at As quarter The end minimum billion a were Guaranty PMIERs assets assets required billion. XXXX, approximately $X.X our approximately available had and $X.X over of assets fourth required available of cushion. excess $X.X of billion the assets PMIERs minimum of XX% represents the

the X.X required the expected application as to XX% required And benefit year-end. of amount to loans. assets that XXXX. excess for reduce XX, this PMIERs billion, to continue COVID-XX attributable reduction to minimum which minimum December XXXX. Slide of as defaulted Guaranty’s Radian fully which XX, diminish at basis over PMIERs applicable contributed was to of of materially future minimum our on noted required time. the Guaranty minimum available assets the utilized multiplier expect approximately $X.X has continue Guaranty, reduces consolidated on a get on Radian assets our also This on assets by in represents at to COVID-XX-related XX% factor, expected million delinquencies resources XX, cushion however, The the asset $XXX required will significant have The of is required we We multiplier Radian December

reduction assets. peaked approximate benefit this in required billion quarter we a $X minimum the received an As reminder, when far has XXXX, second the of thus in

PMIERs benefit be excluding PMIERs would period this current cushion XX%. Our benefit, approximately this XX%. cushion including is our And

XX, as L. PMIERs XXXX, third-party by noted we Guaranty’s minimum billion asset on by press of arrangements both and other Radian notes reduced Exhibit distributing risk required As reinsurance $X.X December release have insurance-linked reinsurance for requirements

certainty as the of cash long-established in Radian regulator of approved flows $X.X XXXX. from economic with of available the a excess billion we the predictability that enhanced expense, as agreements in in billion company's landscape. interest light For was to and responsible most of subsidiaries company to of includes company XX, December and $X.X Total us manner dividends $XXX.X managing credit flows. important through December XX, not its and liquidity, It an facility XXXX, Group, committed which maintained are by level is provides with liquidity. tax sharing million parent This parent note capital of subsidiaries. cash Radian remains the of funded

shareholder of strong history of uses and sources have our a and and We friendly prudent taking managing capital. thoughtful, actions

common continued the throughout approximately to returning shareholders We year. past million $XXX the to shareholders a to dividend over pay pandemic have

earnings XXXX, of dividends During XX% our shareholders. in we returned approximately to our net

by trends believe position. positioned capital We well and continue are the the strength to be in overall the are business to existing we of our leverage encouraged we seeing today

XXXX. of we a $XXX available which we to XX, authority and pandemic, XX, the to purchase via have $XXX.X prior March million does until to reminder, August due program shareholders existing program returned buyback program, million As under the on temporarily the suspending up still our expire to not

are we I to Radian Rick. the our at Radian liquidity Group, and turn Guaranty to capital flexibility strength over and provided our the businesses financial that now will deliver back grow available positioned shareholders. call Given well that our to the value by believe we

Richard Thornberry

Frank. you, Thank

our me open and high but meet your pandemic you and high-impact employees the this communities value in will and customers as the not increased our able XX%. and the and the billion charitable stockholder increased by fortified combination of our we demanding questions, support on through a was remind challenges environment Before only per supporting call in share $XXX We've XXXX that portfolio let contribution to same programs return, focus to We is a in and volume XXXX, and $XXX do personally also dividends of year. continue to support our financial a of both success other our in professionally, to million of thoughtful repurchase. market. grew that team company capital book through our successfully share each position to result our our flexibility valuable insurance We outstanding

Finally, the we industry through cycle mortgage our been last and weathered that business the financial building demonstrating model storm, have crisis. the since the resiliency

operator, we'd questions. to like take Now


you. Riley. Please [Operator Binner question our comes Randy from Thank go first ahead. from Instructions] And B.

Randolph Binner

morning. NIW clarify size a how Good kind question I new that billion guide you. right. change written. I in I NIW. think, around of might about wanted also if a you to $XXX that year-over-year? commentary your $XXX Hey. billion Rick, market them insurance the Thank that was there had to I just on at And had

Richard Thornberry

GSEs And Yes. Thank pretty the market given across the that the forecast the you, bankers question. in yes, size is mortgage the Randy. association. and Appreciate we varied see

We fueled purchase requiring continue our a a which improve by into market I strong home be we market the persistency at as see year-over-year, see as next to declining, driven decline see by is I of think first-time And do so declining, well. low declining. – think originations it going right that'll kind overall downpayment. we that year, refinances look ultimately we buyers

NIW, fair I based of probably see strong second I we've we're guidance share largest our a to think probably going And of forecast get it's of going insurance market economic than own see it's be the relative any And to the be going our fueled to next not NIW where for second in – one – kind potentially continue the by mortgage think to purchase market a we're we participate – largest smaller market to going I we market – the value. and look, but the upon again, given to So market year. think ever.

strong. to year it look next So I think continues

Randolph Binner

piece. who more One, mean, lenders understanding curious an you a the is that, grow expect, year. be you've expectation. question out refi far into of possibly refi levels? in data, was kind are that relative to And agenda the mean, initial going And I related there what expectation refi the year of lower Okay. here. pushing an above normally but XXXX two-part so refi have And MBA this I expectation MBA my this it’s all-in possible to exceed to your meaning, follow-up – seeing is seen we’d I than going there guess, to on that’s I'd

Richard Thornberry


pass, the some XXXX. I other largely driven forecasts interest in terms the view versus how by think, interest right, progressing rates through are rate MBA their they of of

a it. market secondary largely to providing tighten, I so going for the is spread, could that's spread also think There the opportunity primary, drive And refinances. the the factor, continued

the path too we're to early I I relatively back we've all that. So bit. refinances. them watching though it's And And even rates low tell a of think of think, seen are still up little

persistency. which is that purchase purchase but very slow so drive industry. I think will continue, think is, predict. But the to market, refinances across is, I drive our year it's refinances hard over more our MI, viewpoint likely probably have on overall And persistency more forecast down, mortgages the expectation to from we're is are and certainly that improved focused our ultimately

supply, environment macroeconomic are shortage a are there time right. where and we today interest many play there's I in housing in – factors that point so and a rates obviously the just of think COVID

demand. purchase could the just stronger if are market So meet I think there would was factors. a the lot it you many to see But able be

going through let year, I'm to rates. direction I'd slow not of and to predict the here would the say, are interest to we but us them refinances I’ll others expect be with that. probably So do

Randolph Binner

All enough. right. comments. Fair Thanks the for

Richard Thornberry

Yes. you, Thank Randy.


our go And Please KBW. question next from Bose George from comes ahead.

Bose George

Good everyone. morning. Hey,

Richard Thornberry

morning. Good

Bose George

like moderated shares one just well. your insurance with it the ask shrunk even a you little growth, about First to versus looks around numbers it's NIW in-force grew industry, about which X% is, it's X% noted, and as bit any

not about So Any on driven do would can this just you trends being think And active also, been in market? the – bulk the in market? talk the you some competitive just by has color help. of share

Richard Thornberry

our we as in-force does back insurance X%. come don't splits has grew yes, kind you. the year-over-year tag-team that. NIW think all business, of I I'll I’ll Yes. again, some. value in And you overall, one. share we an from think But But choose I'll this where think let to drive there Bose, and our to insurance economic Derek think because And compete. thank view, that in-force I about to created comment equal point some market as on Derek do is of of Derek let but

it mix about If I think premium you take or I think years some about couple the single I XX exact think is I policy probably you the in-force number. we our ago, insurance XX% We're higher. came of have And X%. our a around in as don’t – reconciliations, to of today. portfolio, out was down think servicer

of transition our what repositioning and a really in-force insurance greater And so to seen books. is monthly we've of percentage the much

had – disproportionate a banker] into that able we that interesting other But higher I thing these of the consistent our it's a the kind probably seen rate, with think prepays. would at portfolio a refinances, that's single see is, thought. we which well. – mix is So we've expectation share coming churn been as to that the in [single We've of that

the also free to for a business our that So recognize business of our We business. monthly in able capital accelerated basis. premium year-over-year. an we on XX% from portfolio We're single saw XX% to perspective. able parts we're in decline, our premium a the grow decline saw other investment But return earned

from a to say, consistent XXXX. transition happen level percentage So monthly seen more let's of a that higher singles of over we've

I Frank both from is to XXXX monthly the our In is book. our and you XX% vintage. an if fact, XXXX at mentioned look insurance our XX% the fact, in-force But of there's of relative interesting monthly book, book

that which seeing pivot continued not expansion you're only And pivot I purchase think going that to increasing of of more something head insurance providing a forward. a of We economic macro or fundamentals value market market, we the business, given strong insurance we're low as we purchase market kind and XXXX purchase focused the monthly long-term. that an book to going forward. play to is provide a will towards see this has the strong – so a into think low transition as into see. downpayment significant this kind going in-force, evolving forward, in good for book, really of low And to profile that earnings we the going book purchase great XXXX our believe you're reshaping going kind a strong coupon we seeing our another role quality, forward, high economic market, We really see in-force our continue with the expect monthly backdrop the of premium but for

so would just characterize insurance and of monthly growth I somewhat a which bodes the a our pivot – for think well And we I book, repositioning towards future. in-force is a

I'll Derek market let So on share. the comment

Derek Brummer

Rick. Thanks, Sure.

In things terms affect of that market bids market can and bulk are, share, you one of to the alluded the shares.

that, market about not black those impact. not went industry towards the of we're And as the market originators So more especially origination to participating, is can volatility to talked have extent share framework. pricing move box We around unexpected. an a where the that the that

long-term we distribution expect kind is volatility. pro distribution the a can of expect of what to but towards rata quarter-to-quarter You a industry kind some volatility, some more see in with

stable at was you pricing. pricing lot adjustment pre-COVID of pretty This looked COVID it of when surprising, a terms hit. quarter, in There kind not of was

to the price pricing you macroeconomic black-box QX. that some pricing of pricing in of expect adjusted than more across QX, you'd We that's positive we becomes still And in relative kind our was not of adjust. pricing And the as kind in again, more more levels. had gave kind aggregate XX% have in terms our elevated of environment think upward. back pre-COVID So competitors industry of of probably their increase unexpected as probably

And as this long-term so Richard indicated at when our are looking economic focus, we're is really value.

business of pro What trying always our kind market looking And we those we're find for that return highest with set expecting do relative the translate what we're rata we're also share so we're that share that perspective, on a you're to finding win down it’ll of capital that, in accretive. perspective? to large of The sometimes we And adjusting but our the up the trying where We're terms kind ultimate kind clearing to the long-term down when sometimes and How up. main is, do of looking market of quarter-to-quarter. of value. are. those from price your So distribution. to from business? trying price at anytime not levels will those to return spots. Quarter-to-quarter, need view only mindful a our very of constantly the go performance spots, a and you're it’s find kind market spots, find that market be thing does to to find When go to pricing

just think of and accretive shareholder best strategy. going to strategy a our of we're to that's from perspective. So We most execute the kind value on continue kind long-term

Bose George

Definitely very helpful. for Thanks great. then on just lot the services financial responses. a both Okay, segment. other And just quick one

think other run rate modeled just XXXX? and this from segment from the about as the that how should item rate line we run Just quarter, that we

Richard Thornberry

real about services. talking estate You’re

Bose George

yes. Yes. Reserve mortgage segment, services

Richard Thornberry


quickly. the I'll real two side, take So there really real is just components. estate

lifted really do look, we to at point were I I businesses. invest we're these about think, happy why. and moratorium, in have business. that And that and we're think, continue of going And revenues today, are talk foreclosure title the some been I'm in around business, we're that But focused have to really kind I that they're to specifically had those and strong our in for to of as Those those. a continue and in I'd business the are comeback, really scaling pandemic full-year, was think, the and really say both a a we businesses our and valuation around fourth by saw margins, what position place investing quarter strong the we throughout our environment moratoriums impact eviction poised driven because were as year. the from REO there BPOs. – for market on business in

MI clients. ahead of in at we business that customers in to we're see technology. of we many So the growth title business, are investing in scale and our And coming terms staffing our – that over the as beginning when we to to that look look

this to assets focused that Clayton our away going carve that that's of I And highly, but And business the on real digital we the in would leverage seen business, you've traditional kind we're business, technology highly to estate advanced businesses businesses. those across we’re so as and say, continue have. Bose. our really And we valuation scale of EMC investing

a and as Investor the volatility. is PropTech And going we'll move we'll towards Day, customer the be businesses and to you the But growth that And we little view contribution. our our said financial with relationships. businesses do provide year. businesses value get in year, more mortgage ultimate today we're going indication ecosystem. kind are announce of at as mortgage ahead and very FinTech through detail so business businesses more And think what's for because a I They're of we to have but expect well in squarely building EPS which invest estate digital going think and we These them. information a Today, they on our today today bit I'd world say, of this our we're look I the insurance fit data real to to there's later kind point of believe provide look, value. on in in we of continually get align and that going to valuation I've accretive the good short-term, they before, are from of not all the that do to is needle from

the PropTech think we're continue I businesses, have We value. that we're invest business and around future have value real digital of that's Index. mortgage observations estate while ecosystem those a But a across positioned shareholder can business from you market think investing I in Radian to towards estate these today real market value think to FinTech, develop the happening well what's we part mortgage value. get whole Price the and perspective and insights we businesses And transformation being Home and see great towards towards embedded the a

we're announced going of it view, not point So going how going create we'll investments. we forward making quarter-to-quarter we're business investments perspective we'll towards shareholder a I'm But view I this. these manage EBITDA date to provide on the for best on – value to Day, a that, to our our continue to more from that. and much point when do Investor of continue at where in to make a from detail

be So plan. that would our

Bose George

That’s much. Thanks helpful. very Okay.

Richard Thornberry

Thank you.


And DeVries go ahead. our next question comes from Mark Barclays. from Please

Mark DeVries

think Yes. every you I about I quarter. asked capital Frank, Thanks. returns

prepared for the substantial given large well thoughts latest here as company the liquidity this. resume you're the and just sure at buybacks PMIERs defaults we're to appetite I'm just So the also But your holding to wanted Radian your favorable on hear in trends excess well as the seeing Guaranty. at

Franklin Hall

greater the through which I pandemic, repurchase pause really did of risk visibility past have capital adequate capital seen have environment have has dividend the And able made to – economic economic Thanks, of the we've balance sure what when have uncertainty toward that remain those is thoughts and support going it planning, the do similar to you to make time organic any landscape program even make will economy I there we over the and over and past, respond years, over in growth, to offer, the question. We're say, we to improvement broad have level I know on regarding elevated still an address height uninterrupted. appreciate at to your have that and been consistency overall got sure normal, the last in The appropriate. if that's the Mark. quarters. considering But was the the priorities strategic return we're the to and Yes and pandemic you've total been several sure six you noted will seen consistent the think opportunities. capital is you management. as there return potential future we But losses. capital shareholders that our I approach now share seem our

we would remain repurchase levels. to the re-engage that in regard, approach so activity value And extent repurchase pricing philosophy in as regarding our that a reminder, based the any and might a

we at And that define the we doesn't can $XXX.X our remaining discussion one have trading the a an And plan authorization do August during initiate have and future so to do expensed you in flexibility million, of XX. open window.

would better helpful. So say, and are things yes, – so looking I that's overall overall I hope

Mark DeVries

run us think for the yield, singles. might kind think maybe what the Thanks, premium Frank, the in a That's also of kind disclosure moving you yield under assumptions. and helpful different do expect cancellation different about should see could off understand, – Frank. has really was like pieces. could the help the cancellations the of to we the color different us then around portfolio But color Yes. about premium even just on yield, in ceded with very moves prepayments we Slide a could on the where more single give net XX, and to example lines, of mean, And premium I the premium and some directionally, Help expectations lines. move and clearly of all hoping in-force those that just kind the little helpful. maybe dimensionalize of us you provide bit question home

Franklin Hall


has components different those drivers, of each if will. think you I

be, of there, expect is think decline. big another. on magnitude the the premiums I to continued cancellations the many the to what think we've do of would certainly there, premium portfolio And noted give some yield won't driver ceded single I to that we we a really that guidance continue this the for is overall now but drivers you decline guide quarters

those have Rick those, as but is view I now. – So single a you our of on portfolio to think would premium less need said,

something put have opportunity you to view for to activity is predict the refinance that. So your

than So answer the of coming on yields business to that upon on and where dependent put continued pricing anything on just fine of new on to a the and of point �� we've that to I say especially directionally, we're wouldn't yield all what's the guide in-force NIW off. want other is course getting the mixed

some but predict, helpful So that's it's I in to difficult way. hope again,

Mark DeVries

just still take there just earned by the that we like on drag If I commission. could follow-up that think one? I that basis assume is right Yes. if premium way the As line. being higher moving that. to we points ceded and closer of losses Is kind impacted Well, about profit normalize back the Should think we that things to X.X about saw back that? the pre-COVID.

Franklin Hall


I think that's right.

As many think continue return we be what of things would similar. like, relative normal on these I to to do a looks basis

Mark DeVries

for Got Okay. comments. Thanks All the right. it.


Bhatia question next Mihir our comes from And Bank from Please of go America. ahead.

Mihir Bhatia

Hi. that we're my rate. wanted information Thank you correctly. I'll looking the Maybe for this to confirm taking with I XX, start questions. Slide just cure at on

Just cure XX%. the as suggests an QX data taking example,

it's delinquencies to ratio on X.X% have of initial think XX% I XQ believe right. those cured. claim I was So default your

you seeing like just to if then had the trends will Maybe about expectation been even another develop. So cure, you XX% that compares guess, that expecting your as and – been this time? about relatedly, and talk like you quarter, last number had how you're the can I XX% what at reserving

Franklin Hall

Sure. Frank. This is

I think your interpretation That’s is of kind cured. slide XXXX, XX% the XX.X% correct. of the XQ for

we is thing and since we will we've the the the defaults claim pandemic we've timing the of the that challenging of got an have is ultimate clarity What estimate in what think I is, into saw really will and of this that's the surge occur. when be. said rate beginning don't

about think, that's to be thought to any experience on So But information little given that based just helpful a that there. but time, what might – more more that why some our expectations actually of provide little we predictable be want slide. a precise and too become is, I on I wouldn't it would

Richard Thornberry

question. I your think Mihir, to

ultimate or what I think is run I rate don't it's rate rate towards we're working know. – towards. the X.X% kind claim that decline of

FHFA, kind this flash a months months. a out extending another morning to quick forbearance three also think of news I for we about the saw potentially XX

to people they can. to stay in those incentive of to an state of period kind continue forbearance that some time the So have for extended an extent of

forbearance homeowners the all we're think positive back just kind back the that monitoring part the on generally allowing I stress are watching. point, to of it's and feet it of something get economic for were I Frank's just programs timing think and get by But through caused is their to pandemic. market, this So

think about I seeing. feel the progress generally to good we we're So continue

Mihir Bhatia

be Texas Great. MI actually Texas, quite event fair couple from just assume to The helpful. that non-event the a you. of right? week, That Thank will last that then is perspective, a And ones. quick

Derek Brummer

see event in the Yes. that We of don't overall terms as a material portfolio.

Mihir Bhatia

it. Got

any and go just kind you've then refis last on I depends know And Okay. But little you the persistency size you'd being persistency, about of to interest be at minimum rates gets of draft it where think down. you least. low Do on through bit market think XXXX question a for talked the the put end of at now? willing numbers on a towards maybe because its

Franklin Hall

Yes. going hard what on say to near-term Frank. to It This be. persistency is is really is

longer-term that wildcard think I still the the think certainly I would but refinance we've to low-XXs what in we expect a is continued is say activity. near-term, persistency

So in the near-term. try to too precise get

Mihir Bhatia

my are Those you. Thank Okay. questions.


go from from And Ryan ahead. Gilbert Please BTIG. our next question comes

Ryan Gilbert

you the that business like comments just foreclosure kind months any we think XX. in in of I'm that saw looks loss period wondering particular impact release. thanks. extended Good how And I XX the It morning. that prior if Hi, to and forbearance year the moratorium reserve and XXXX. on June to your press also they about FHFA had of extended how the initial should would reserving impact

all capital been of in the process? or your XXXX, about period, impact if reserving on return extension thinking that's done Just decision-making capital potential XXXX. in return forbearance which would also then the moratorium the the And

Franklin Hall

claim and Frank. is from forbearance are for But good it programs before, as payment Rick forbearance homes, it This people recurring. Derek very their add – and extensions. It Sure. start, said we've the prevents can keeps a in the I'll is us. on

that occurs let So us. over for et price well especially bodes to keep appreciation all to longer anything their develop very of more time that home in cetera, periods people homes, of

things very So industry positive overall. the those are for all

that. good feel about we So

made, As and best at where about as mentioned new things trends it's in for it in the takes good are circumstances time I things can comments our it I but levels very change relates as are prepared time see. appropriate facts to say those obviously account, And these would they're that reserve and reserving, feel and estimate reserves, our a certainly moment the our now, we risks over into develop. we

how to think I direction, returns, trending on and way the wait ultimate are things see say would we'll I ultimately have a Then just in capital play certainly last So good our this out. makes those how had previously. and claims, that question Mark what your was into asked estimates its about on

and feel or think levels seeing we're I speaking. holding about the our broadly we So current trends resources capital certainly good that company

starting appropriate. And of good think we I show like So to feel and to I normal. when we're stewards returning are capital very capital return many would it's think that to history the things shareholders

or Rick Derek, if want on I don't know to the you anything So add forbearance.

Derek Brummer

of forbearance I is a going good and there's time moratorium, among Sure. that I mean, the I’d periods helpful. then policymakers the think surprisingly the just not to kind add, on in foreclosure recognition terms of extension

only of temporary the terms giving that from forbearance time the rollout, not So positive. quite to just perspective, positive very exits difficulties but and more is options to write of are just to home terms date. a to continue appreciation are and friendly rates having be Also kind are exit in also to see [indiscernible] we reemployment MI our of vaccine price the borrowers in that those

as as a the in to of I think overall good to how So current situation. kind deal best with recognition expected and industry the

Ryan Gilbert

or increase if back the foreclosure did because I circle Thanks. Okay, that. just want to appreciate extension the the great. you capital of of return the forbearance do return to the could on just moratorium capital, necessarily I'm extension influences timing But when decision-making itself. question wondering shareholders? your just capital on capital return absolute really think around I level capital you not

Franklin Hall

another I would I mean, know it of influence Yes. we're at. looking positives don't positive list on just it's necessarily that timing. a

things So of account all these to fatality. are in taken

Richard Thornberry

their about aside, these about putting point good through communities just all terms back at when small are macroeconomic supporting of support the that from would relief all the Congress, in feet. the marketplace on a Ryan, politics to our think you you add, I going and view get of program think in Yes. the homeowners businesses

a we're we to to general adds cautious be have to the I positive think that there's of these transition supportive because homes providing positive but all just starting for point. be the still still are for macroeconomic a scenario ultimately I'd trends to to way in of say But that that in see. types kind uncertainty people the changes market, that going are in a very macroeconomic

Ryan Gilbert

second January then new was And you. trends. Thank it. Got Okay. the just default question around

little to kind I a expect improvement But was wondering you're And should you seeing lined in of defaults in think of this or see months the kind further we in remarks. from It this improvement normal? prepared mentioned for new if ahead, February I further is December. the level it. if surprised of the I'm flat post-COVID new

Derek Brummer

Yes. This Derek. is

dramatically and some seasonal we're quickly the almost in indicated of Frank that, month-to-month had you because QX, So and that in new they're pretty adjusting movement, of some down they're effect XX% have down. terms also defaults terms as you from see all

typical be above. they're but closer of year-over-year of positive So economic is trends, they're terms turn feeling a in is what that assuming to going seasonal good somehow about because through there's embedded assuming of positive expect We we they housing XX% year portfolio. would are strong The to not kind basis, a expect to macro it the very and were recovery, We effects downward. closer still continued kind equity that of would kind the a that market kind on from see understanding strong pre-COVID, getting there's of still perspective. development extremely kind economic of

going rate unemployment down. have You

to those defaults. factors and direction macro in positive new kinds point impact So continue a all how of of would it

Ryan Gilbert

much. I great. Thank it. appreciate Okay, you very


And from our next question ahead. & go comes from Geoffrey Please Dowling Partners. Dunn

Geoffrey Dunn

morning. Good Thanks.

et had unique cetera. to travel, XXXX obviously from considerations question, First some respect with expenses

frame operating for So Frank, consideration, up help maybe that and you – the MI in can given expenses XXXX? expectation expenses

Franklin Hall

Geoff. Sure. Good morning.

if And sale you estimated you'll of a run million that quarterly expenses and quarter. that rate million is, a it $XX $XX about quarter XXXX, actually expenses after of we this So see the back than quarter. time sort I think normalized about you think was that's be I recall if through that, was at basis would Clayton, [indiscernible] look a less last

similar predict, is QSR. do $XX some our there $X items. ceding I also say thing So a And million, level. recognize compensation-related from or minus million is expense forward going million rate, of run to the a right usually commissions is always type the plus difficult benefit or that $X to that's would a we due singles probably variability then The under it the

would But high some certainly your can an elevate there that of we bring speaking, expectation subject where generally periods so is benefit. but put run-rate cancellation change, of that's I attention. And that singles if to change, can to

Geoffrey Dunn

appreciation I evolved the and then it roughly can the your probably QX are with think to as MI you sure if was in enter not And is, talked your your and kind Lease you in Okay. was industry directly. flat reserves to respect I'm into – reserve XXXX? home methodology, sense if QX the and assumptions very share you with Has HPA assumption reserving my your prices, down. and assumptions that QX, since going of what about it assumption. But back ever conservative

Franklin Hall

anything our Yes. accordingly. we assumption. in look on can say these a Geoff, make assessment and assumptions pin all it's particular I hard of to that totality at would

default claim And view. so with change that's rate the in you to and no saw period-over-period consistent our

change, we appropriate things felt most we for but the as that's As for we'll was the period. to, adapt what need moment

Geoffrey Dunn

No. I how more claim and on an talking assumption I'm you're that? into the severity factoring the understand HPA rate.

Franklin Hall

Yes. Derek, you… if

Derek Brummer

Derek. Yes. it’s Geoff,

kept well. quarter, in rate that default our overtime kind we impact, claim that frequency and the as assumption haven't into does terms the but stable think realized that severity. have pretty of we and do in than to HPA, date. the a of of embedded decreasing price express itself significantly any that We it taking of account and could equity to home appreciation, the more severity, severity that quarter-to- in it's obviously give by So a reserve an will Often

Geoffrey Dunn

Thanks. Okay.


comes And SIG. next question from ahead. go Micenko from our Please Jack

Jack Micenko

of has of your in the reading into in have is bigger a the talked the FICO if too part becoming pricing if in and picking loss? out? shift underway? that kind curious down release a Is a Hi. there's in of putting future in predictability interpretation press than look big the bit, I'm model the terms right maybe LTVs terms Just business. more LTV Good what of and FICO mix of much market or of consideration a the of the pronounced model the more the numbers, but about NIW morning. earlier, like spots you some stronger Is recently score on migrated Rick, gotten terms of

Richard Thornberry

appreciate think No, – I morning. Yes. Jack the good question, and

and across pick details. this think we've in up can – we and Derek our and across distribution. our fill think base But on costs I the mentioned, where we I on focus economic as customer are on see

So to I just But economic pursuit as think things over it [indiscernible]. month-to-month, me you're our and of Derek can value. let pass see of quarter-to-quarter about he going based talk changes he kind to upon

Derek Brummer

for Jack, Yes. I performance. of we think kind was I on is have in of set you to earlier One what the talked modeling dimensions. dimension ultimate mean, two one look of things about the kind

bigger prediction in much changing factor just of move right? model that's competitive of probability, the So in landscape. and is and the So default probability would what's not prepayment so our terms really Kind it. the oftentimes what

market I referred shift was before, to clearing And credit level As to market that clearing level? spectrum. times the going around what's the at

higher return might it find market buckets be FICO perspective. and we from buckets clearing sometimes And needing FICO that in lower levels a attractive

any competitive dimensions, driven see kind significant of that like so really don't probably which you're by be terms movements where think the you have we if to highest we find what in that's we of a likely dynamics change those it more change as would allocate to I generally want capital in when that, going more So to of back to going where you're relative see and those to see trends. going the much value,

Jack Micenko

of XXXX? little we bit differently, going switched I of think reserving, going months If progressed a through number a And on towards XXXX, there's and to all it’s they asking – we really three coming pivot Geoff’s the an waiting better if forbearance house see lights who or than no and like talked to of kind a Biden goes question because, end to DQs of weighted the get lose forbearance that this default like at of more at clip But more it just sort look forbearance months point these paying. back to under LTV the kind it I you another three the a don't Frank XX anticipate on Does end maybe HPA less. Okay. be line terminal some night. seems out moving DQs of can towards thought. And of like one's loss about another approach think HPA get we when we're the what you happens to in and what number, a then Do we're the we at administration.

Franklin Hall

add start in. and I'll can Yes. Derek

I in sense. moving that you're some is I think tough more But play theory saying pieces out, are I makes think obviously mean, what there. it Jack. there to

that you're what I happen describing think look does and is, claim can't a like. what just

Richard Thornberry

prices that like equity double it's up going single, high just embedded model. low more keep As here, just oil there's and for there

Derek Brummer

of XX% to defaulted better now, right. our right I'd at probably XX%, around equity exactly equity right continues XX% and of And you kind population you're increase. Jack, embedded if around XX% Look, Yes. look that's say of having have and that

that's and recession. – always a you in Now unusual

down. in certainly would sometimes that that point, that with certainly of trend a all going be little But when positive of a equal home that tricky So to you're pressure respect And things are out, prices trying bit being ultimate downward kind to can because usually model it. to right, rate. your have that terms is yes, roll

it look So when at I it and wouldn't also frame as [indiscernible]. you

multiple you're into at when kind taking rates, you're things. of roll So account looking

matter that model and going HPA amount reemployment a of realized to rates always of with respect you error. the is things like have some So not certain just to only trends because

historical in equity, at rates, forward, trying to you're So who actually reemployment terms you're utilizing the landscape. and in going predict kind trends, equity, are it of looking also things policy like of then default, embedded future just at those looking

single it's thing. say a dimensional like not would I So

and might rate of Home think in it necessarily. So I certain of kind and we're or roll terms have would – less, wouldn't one more relatively weigh it of historically going think would factors switch would We it's price more your to the impact case. these in way. appreciation, agree. circumstances of has been I that than Hey, ultimate an

Richard Thornberry

have incentive borrowers exit their equity And in the with markets back about effecting to ultimately strong point Derek's house frequency, because more earlier in to an ways today it. property

these claim also remember still are as all about So I forbearance think the go that gets right. rates. factors extended, in after years we think And that, come default ultimately longer claim the this period

there all was is So we're multiple periods of out actually interesting another factor before which cash a claim in paid, us.

a going we to premiums very the we're to So each our it go of monitor to I we'll continue and Jack, carefully to pieces express it, but continue watch quarter. think puzzle, lot as

Jack Micenko

appreciate I the comments right. All everybody.

Richard Thornberry

Thank you.

Franklin Hall

Jack. Thanks,


Thornberry I So now final further at over no remarks. turn time. questions for we it Rick this will to have

Richard Thornberry

for wish coming you questions. talking to soon. of joining and well much And forward you you we Take and we'll again. all look Yes. your have call soon we in thoughtful Most and the care. healthy as everybody year, and Bye-bye. talk the we stay all the each success thank appreciate of to Well opportunity. you Thank


Thank you, concludes Thank ladies for you and gentlemen. participating. today's conference. This

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